Evangelising has a time, and funerals are not it.

PERHAPS some of you might have already known from my blog, or perhaps with Singapore's mere three degrees of separation it is not difficult to guess - 20-year-old motorcyclist Goh Jingwei, who was killed last Saturday in the shocking bus-bike accident, was a friend of mine.

It was a heart-wrenching and shocking ordeal for me, not only because of the cruel way Jingwei went, but also because he was the first of my friends to go.

I cannot claim to have attended many funerals (nor would I ever want that), but so far, those that I've been to before Jingwei's were gracefully arranged.

In my opinion, the service, no matter what religion the deceased may be, is overtly important. It is the last memory one can have of the deceased, and unpleasant as funerals always are, personalized eulogies by loved ones combined with tastefully prepared rituals or gentle bereavement speeches can seal the deceased in the best memory one can remember him as.

In Jingwei's case, it was uncertain whether he was a Christian or not, but he did express an interest in the said religion, and, according to his friends, had attended church twice. Thus his family, who were not Christians, acted accordingly and held a Christian funeral for him.

The chosen pastor, naturally, did not know Jingwei personally. That cannot be blamed. But what made me feel angry, was the way the pastor had to repeatedly glance back at his piece of paper in hand to get Jingwei's name correct, and yet managed to deliver his memorized speeches flawlessly.

Excuse me, but that is just plain offensive.

To all of us present, Jingwei is so important... and yet, the pastor could not even put in a little extra of effort to memorise a three-syllable name?

An inappropriate analogy perhaps, but I remember when I was a banquet waitress I've always told myself that it might be just one of the many times I am serving a wedding dinner, but that evening is eternally special for the couple. And therefore, I always put on my best performance for these weddings. Shouldn't the pastor have the same attitude; or is Jingwei just unimportant because he is doing this speech thing everyday?

That being said, a different pastor from the previous day was actually doing active evangelizing during the service.

Among all the heartbroken people that Jingwei had left behind, he had the cheek to actually announce, I quote, that he would "like to take this opportunity" to urge those present to accept Christ, or well, not be able to go to heaven like Jingwei did.

I'd love to spew some vulgarities at this point of time, but urgh, I can't. (Hey, I can now! KNNBCCB!)

What does he mean by "take this opportunity"? This is my friend's funeral, and it will not be used as a billboard for his personal preaching! He was hired to comfort those in grief, to pray for Jingwei, and to conduct the whole ceremony - most definitely not for non-Jingwei related issues such as evangelizing!

I recognize that he wants to spread his beliefs, but there is a time for it, and the moment he chose could not have been more wrong. It was taking advantage of a person's death for his own religion's benefit (although he is assuming the benefit for 'converters' but keep in mind not everyone agrees with that, and I most definitely don't)! It is ok if Jingwei specified, before he passed away, that he wanted his faith to be spread, but Jingwei most certainly did not do such a thing.

But the issue has passed. It doesn't matter anymore, because no matter how the funeral went, Jingwei will still be with us (his family and friends) spiritually, although he has left physically.

What matters, however, is that such atrocity does not happen in future. I am writing this article as people tend to let pass these hiccups because the atmosphere is sombre enough without extra trouble - which I think is a terrible mistake. The funeral is going to be the last impression of the deceased one can have, and it has to be done properly. It should not be tolerated, such insensitivity to the deceased and family.


**************

Personally speaking, since I am a non-Christian, I find it pretty - condescending - that pastors tell the story of how Xtians all go into Heaven - whilst the rest of us have to stay and suffer on Earth.

It sounds like a nicely-spun fairy tale to me, and though it might help loads of others get over their grief (which is a good thing), I still feel uncomfortable with that particular belief. Here are some of my concerns in brief:

1) The pastor telling us not to be sad, for JW was taken away by GOD to a better place.

a) You bloody do not even know JW till he is lying there dead, OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T BLOODY BE SAD. Don't even try to understand our feelings, and don't tell us what to do, because you DON'T KNOW A THING. Just shut up, you hired stranger. (It is not the pastor's fault I know, but I want to be angry at something)

b) If God truly wanted to take him away, why did God chose such a tragic death? Is it to torture his friends and family? Why can't he go in a peaceful manner? (If you don't already know, JW's head got rolled over by a TIBS bus after skidding off his bike)

2) It was said that Jesus understand our grief, for he too lived as a human, and he knows we all have heavy hearts. He however urges us not to feel upset, for the deceased as gone to a better, sunshiny place called heaven. So ... Does this Jesus guy expect us to feel upset, or not??? (If you don't get the contradiction, I am not going to bother explaining)

3) If it is true that dying means God wants to take us to him, then how come pastors take medication when they have terminal cancer? Just go la.

4) If living is merely for the glamourous afterlife with God (scoff, as long as we believe in Him that is - poor kindly monks), then what's the point of this life? To separate us into hell and heaven?

5) I've got a no. 5, but at this point of time my mother just started to scold me regarding chalet matters (which I am starting to feel is far more troubles than it is worth), so I forgot it.

Excuses. So many reasons spun out of nowhere to cover these questions. I just cannot accept it.

Maybe Christians can answer me, but don't. One thing I hate hearing is people putting words into God's mouth, like they play chess with him everyday. My Christian friend heard my questions. He cannot answer me, because God (is supposed to) have infinite wisdom, and we mere humans cannot fathom how he thinks. A good enough answer for me.

**************************
Note to Christians: The first part of the article is targeted at the particular behaviour of the individual pastors, and not the religion. Do understand that. I agree that most pastors would not do such insensitive things, or even if they do evangelise it is ok since the deceased is an staurch Christian and he/she would like to spread his/her faith. But as JW's friends, we find that behaviour hard to accept, because we know that JW would not have liked it. He never evangelised to us. Even though the pastor doesn't know this, his choice of words were still wrong anyway.

The queries later on, are my doubts, and do try to answer them if you can --- though I am not interested in your own answer. If you want, quote me the bible.

**********************

"The Babel fish," said the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quietly, "is small, yellow and leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. (......) The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language.

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof for the nonexistance of God.

"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

" 'But,' says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It would not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

" 'Oh dear,' said God, "I haven't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."



---- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (1979)

Did I already say how much I love Douglas Adams?

(This story is not relevant to the first parts, but I was reminded of it and just put it in anyway)

****************

Postnote: To all the buggers who are saying that it is ok to evangelise at the funeral, HOW FUCKING INSENSITIVE CAN YOU GET? Ok look, you are saying the pastor is just doing his job. So it is justified to do it, anytime, anyplace is it? Just coz he is "doing his job"?

Excuse me but that makes no sense.

Answer me this then, why don't the pastor step into a Muslim wedding and start preaching? Why not? Because it is disrespectful, and people are not interested. The same for the funeral. Christian though it might be, people who are there are there to pay their last respects to JW, and not listen to general preaching talks - which are available at your friendly neighbourhood church anytime. We want to hear about Jingwei, and as I have mentioned, funerals are PERSONAL EVENTS.

I don't care if death is related to Christianity. It is just plain rude. I quote one reader on his comment: "i will agree that it is insensitive just as an insurance agent would be trying to sell a premium plan at the funeral."

One great analogy. So what if the premium plan is a good thing? So what if the insurance agent is "just doing his job"? Tell me about how I am going to hell another time please.

Comments

Ricky Chua said…
My condolences...

I ride a motorcycle, and the dangers are very real...

...yet invisible to those arrogant drivers who have never ridden a motorcycle on the roads and choose to crush us like insects as their daily entertainment relief.
Xiaxue said…
I urge the people leaving comments to be sensitive to both JW's family and friends, as well as Christians reading this.

There is no need to be harsh or rude if you want your opinion heard. Anything too rude, I will delete.

Thanks.
Xiaxue said…
Vio: I think bikes just shouldnt be allowed. Careless as drivers are, you have a choice - and that is to stop using the bike.
N@meLesS said…
Hey I support your point 3.

I'm not trying to be rude about Christian but I just don't understand what's the big deal about the God they keep mentioning. If 'He' is so great, then why are people suffering since 'He' himself also knows how bad it feels. If 'He' only helps those who believe in him, then he is so so so selfish and not worth our precious love.
Sweet_Mocca said…
My grandma once told me that before my mom died, her brother and his wife invited a priest to pray for her. And that insensitive priest said something that went like this "May you be accepted to be by His side". WTF???!!!??? My mom at that time had not died and he bloody prayed that she'd die soon and go to His side!!!
littlebunnie said…
I totally agree with your post..me being a non christian haf been through thousand of times on how christians try to influence us into joining their religion..I haf nothing towards d religion..bt i think d followers haf 2 watch wat kind of image dey r protraying 4 d religion..I seriously hate the way how they 'pity' us..cos they had 2 constantly pray for non followers..cos we wld be going hell instead of heaven after we die(serious! this is what I heard from a preacher of that religion!!)doesnt make sense..wld jesus or god punish non followers like this? I dont think so!
lastly, my condolences for the deceased and his family members..
jllt said…
I get uncomfortable when people try to preach to me and furnerals are definitely not the places to do that. Furthermore, it's illegal to evangelise now since 911.

I was told of a furneral which made no sense to me. Everyone was laughing and smiling because the deceased embraced the religion before he passed away and so everyone was, in a way, celebrating his entry into heaven.

When my friend passed away just a week after his 18-year-old birthday, we sobbed our hearts out. It certainly will not pacify me and remove my sadness to know that my friend is at a "happier place" unless there can be some proof of that.
Sheena said…
Hey Xiaxue, my condolences to you first of all.

But truthfully, I cannot agree with you more on this post. I'm a Catholic, and yet I personally can't stand evangelists and fundamentalists. You should never force someone into a certain religion; religion is based on personal choice (like me, I was born a Buddhist but converted to Catholicism - and without prompting or pushing or forcing from anyone too, but out of my own free will).

That said, I was absolutely revolted to read about the pastor promoting the religion at your friend's service. That is just absolutely disrespectful, disgraceful, and unfeeling. If I were at a loved one's funeral and some pastor gave us crap like that I'd march up to him and tell him to shut the fuck up, because whether people want to go to heaven or hell is their own damn choice, and a funeral isn't an advertising agency for you.
anoymous said…
actually, from the priests point of view, its the standard procedures he's to follow since its not like he knew the deceased anyways. well religion from a licensed advocate is pretty much watered down, do a) do b) then say c) follow up with d) end of with e) etc. its not as if there's some karma meter monitoring his acsension to whicheva higher planes of existence and hence exalting him to some spritual rank heirachy.

then again priest like him prolly do this almost every od week or so, imagine doing it for 20 30 years. bummer. condolences to the family and all friends and acquaintances. its like that when tragedy strikes. some over react, some dont know how to, and some laugh simply because their subconcious is unaccustomed to bereavement.

a read up on instrumentality will prolly not enlighten anyone/anything but it does bring perspectives from interesting angles. however, practical believers of their faith always temper thought and action and analyse before incalcating faith. they adapt, and the inherent skepticism in them propels them to higher levels of understanding. i would humbly beg to differ, that once again, its not too fair to take the worst cut of any faith and sorta psycho analyse them and erm put the faith together with them. yes, even in the micro politics/human dynamics of religion, there will be the social divides there still, i.e rich pretty girl from good family vs. strict chinese educated convert. in any case, back to you on that wisdom threshold: erm knowledge has boundaries, where stupidity is the real infinite >.< and yes, many pastors still say wrong things everyday, or they lack tact and it comes out all wrong. seldom u get priests who get the message across, do not offend their congregation, are easily indentified with and er, do not purposefully invoke guilt to get points across.

but well, god happens to be this social buffer, haa, alot of people already are being practical when they curse(god) or thank(god) everyday, in their own lil ways. cute, they can still be mindless during church times but outta it, they're practical to a fault. i will never comprehend human redemption lah haiyoh.
Sheena said…
Auntie Victor Chen: Just a little note, when you say "priest", it means the person who conducts Catholic services, while "pastor" is the person who conducts Christian services. There is a very big difference e.g. pastors can get married, but priests don't.

Although Catholicism is under the umbrella of Christianity as a whole, they still have different rules and stuff. Anyway the point is, in all my life, I have never, ever heard a Catholic priest do any evangelising. But I have encountered many Christian pastors, and Christians themselves, trying to force me to convert. I'm sorry if I offended Christians out there, please understand that this remark is not directed at ALL Christians, but the many fervent ones I've met.
the Sojourner said…
Hello. i came across ur blog from a friend's of mine. well, i would like to express my condolences for what happened.

about the religious angle, i m a catholic and i believe that religion is a personal choice. it was wrong of the pastor to attempt to 'advertise' christianity in what is quite tasteless really. I recall the catholic understanding of evangelisation as sharing something good with a friend. not shoving it down their throats or dismissing other beliefs.

i have looked at your blog and found it interesting. keep it up...
anoymous said…
merenwen: thanks for clearing that up, i meant priest i.e. catholicism, i've been to the christian pastor ones, alot more manufactored and commercialised as if they were endorsing a product.

my bad.

in any case catholicism outnumbers christianity over here (by alot too) =/
ali said…
Qn 2)

"Jesus wept" John 11:35

and many more where that came from.. =)
I never thought i would leave a message here. I finally agree with one of your posts.
The pastor should be embarrassed!
Isa said…
I'm not a Christian but I would still disagree with what you said. You're just a girl who has no idea what to blog so even picking on the pastor will do some good. To you at least. What the pastor did was totally acceptable. So what if he glances back at the paper. He might have memorised what to say but he most certainly not want to get the deceased name wrong. He must have done that to ensure he doesnt go wrong and offend the people. Imagine you were your mother and you hear the pastor say, "here lies xiaxia" or something else. I can assure you will rise in great fury. Right now, you are just a girl who wants the pampering for the sake of making YOU feel good. You're selfish. You posted that post so that you will get some comfort from your fans who aren't able to read between the lines. It sickens me. As a pastor, he would regard such a gathering no matter good or bad as an opportunity because he beliefs the crowd' benefit from embracing the religion.

Can't you spare a day without your vulgarities.

I'd love to spew some vulgarities at this point of time, but urgh, I can't. (Hey, I can now! KNNBCCB!)

For god's sake, your friend just passed away. Spare the moment.

Of course the pastor would say, " dont be sad....JW is in heaven". Would you rather hear, " Spread your grief for ...is burning in hell with the devils!" Definately not.

I do not have disrespect for JW. I send my greatest condolences.

"If it is true that dying means God wants to take us to him, then how come pastors take medication when they have terminal cancer? Just go la."

Why do you think god created diseases and at the same time the remedy? Firstly if you were to fall sick, no matter who you maybe,even a pastor, there is this thing called trying. You are shallow. Just because you get sick, you end all hopes of recovering. "oh no, I've got SARs, thats too bad, guess I've got to give myself to the lord without trying" OF COURSE NOT! Its stupid.

If living is merely for the glamourous afterlife with God (scoff, as long as we believe in Him that is - poor kindly monks), then what's the point of this life? To separate us into hell and heaven?

That is why, there is this thing called religion.

How can you even compare this issue with wha said in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. You're foolish. Just a foolish girl who doesnt give two shits about what she is actually saying. You are certainly writing, but you're not doing any good. You've only blogged to brag and humiliate others. And you're archiving it all for future saddistic pleasures.
- eil - said…
i personalli is a christian. i read thru ur post. i can understand why and how u felt that way. but i tot tt no matter wart happens in life. u shud respect one another, one religion and another.

the pastor could be true that he do not know ur fren jingwei. but he is juz tryin to help and he could be juz nervous thats why he could not rem your fren, jingwei's name. why not lets juz gif him the benefit of the doubt. lets juz b forgivin for the poor man, i believe that ur fren wouldnt blame the pastor, since he could want thingy to be still good aft he has left.

seein u being so affected by every single aspect of the funeral n ur fren, i can sense that ur fren, jingwei, is a nice guy, a good fren. so y not make every last final memories of his, or linked to him beautiful. he should wan us to haf beautiful memories of his also.

finalli, don be so upset. memories will foreva be kept with us.
neilux said…
Hi xx, it's good that you publish your thoughts here (rather than those you-know-who intimidated media)

Tens of thousands of pairs of eyes are looking at this post and it can be a wakeup call for many Christians: Get your facts and knowledge right AND do not go on "putting words into God's mouth, like you play chess with Him everyday".

Thanks xx
rawb said…
You're just a girl who has no idea what to blog so even picking on the pastor will do some good. - blogvex

That's the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. The very nature of most weblogs are online rants and online discussions, usually about things as they happen or soon thereafter.

That's what people blog about, and that, clearly, is what XiaXue is blogging about.

Anyway, nice site =]
SPARTACUS said…
blogvox is right... the pastor is already putting in his effort by at least writing JW's name on a piece of paper... at least he won't have to say "our beloved uh... eh... uhh..." while cold sweat dribbles down his nose...

and of course, nobody wants an accident to happen, so it's only right to encourage his family members...

if God wanted JW to go, he could have chosen a more peaceful way to let him? It could've been worse ya know....
Xiaxue said…
Blogvox: You contradicted yourself around 3,696 times. Bless you for coming out in public.

Spartacus: Just because it could be worse doesn't mean it is not BAD, and you didn't answer my question at all.

As for the name referring - there is NO EXCUSE FOR IT. It is not difficult to memorise a name, and certainly disrespectful to KEEP LOOKING at the paper every time he said "Jing Wei" - which is a great deal of times.
Daniel said…
haha douglas adams is a genius. I can't wait for the movie to come out.


Aaanyway, I have a feeling that these preachers of religion are actually trying to validate their own beliefs through their vociferous preaching.
In their heart of hearts, they aren't so convinced about it either, and so they seek to convert as many people as possible. Afterall, people feel reassured and more 'correct' when they are in a big group. Their line of thinking is probably:
"If so many people believe in this religion, then this religion must be true right?"
madix said…
Firstly, my condolences to the deceased's family.

Wendy, you contradict yourself.
Maybe Christians can answer me, but don't.
Note to Christians: (blah blah blah)The queries later on, are my doubts, and do try to answer them if you can --- though I am not interested in your own answer. If you want, quote me the bible.

So do you want them to answer your undying questions or not?

I guess it's hard for non-believers...I too, am a free thinker and I also search for these answers myself...by reading the bible and buddhist free publications and material from other religion
to seek an understanding to the world we live in.

1)I ride a bike and I've heard of many tragic deaths of bikers and naturally am able to feel the pain of losing someone so suddenly...If Jingwei really believed in God, bless him for he will be safe in heaven.
God does not seek to torture the family of the deceased.

2)Grieving is a natural process over the loss of a loved one. One grieves to know that his/he loved one is no longer with them...yet rejoices to know that he/she is safe in the arms of the Father.
Its much akin to a mother forced to give away her son because of poverty...yet pleased to know that the son is going to live better in another family.

3)Death comes to us all. But only when our tasks on earth is fulfilled. If to die even without fighting means you have not completed the tasks set to you by God even before entering His heaven.

4)This is a good point. And I hope someone enlightened can verify my answer. We are born to this world because of the sins committed by our early early forefathers (read: Adam and Eve) Yet, God is willing to
accept and forgive us, and let us share His home if we acknowledge Him, His Son, and live our lives in fulfilment to His wishes. Well, it is just so that heaven is not a place when you are a good person in life
you gain an entry ticket(my sympathies to the 'poor kindly monks' too, they have their Western paradise with other entry requirements). You just have to accept the Owner of the heaven, and I find it reasonable.
We don't barge into other people's homes and stay without asking for what terms they set.
Gutz4Glory said…
Hi there,

Totally agree with what you said that the Pastor should have at least gotten the permission of his parents before evangelizing. He should have like concentrated on Jingwei's life and if he wanted, ask ppl on a more personal level if they wanted to know where he belives Jingwei is now.

I used to be an atheist like you, so full of hate and contempt for those hippocrites that call themselves Christians/Catholics. I grew up in a mission school and whenever those "christians" try their jesus mambo jumbo on me, I'll tell them to stuff their bibles and their Gods* up His Galatic blackhole wherever it may be. (A funny nugget against christians is that they claim to be a monotheistic religion but how come they have God, the son and the holy ghost? Wouldn't that make it polytheistic?)

Well, all that change when I experienced death of love ones as well as a near death experience myself. When your life flashes in fronta of you and when you lose people you love dearly, You start to ponder about what the Hell are you doing here and what happens after that. It is said that you can never find an Atheist in the trenches. A true atheist is someone who when before death or have people he/she love die can say with her whole heart that there is no God and i was put here on Earth to be part of this sad story call the human race. My suffering and loss has no meaning and is my lot. My life has no meaning except that as a vessel to contain and propogate my genetic material.

If you read about the Selfish gene theory, we humans are nothing but vessels to contain our genetic material and pass it on to further generations. Where then is the true meaning of life? Our lust for sexy bfs/gfs, money, success is all programmed into us so that we can have a better chance propogate? Are we human beings who created flight, made masterpieces and conqured nature so shallow a being that we are just merely vessels for our DNA?

Did you know that it takes more time in the universe to reassemble a single string of amino acids that would ultimately result in one protein which may or may not become functional? The odds against random creation of life is too staggering to comprehend.

With regards to faith, faith would be blind faith if we are to take it lock, stock and barrel. Faith is the hope for things that are yet come to pass. Faith transcends all understanding. Even the most logical assumptions thought up by men were wrong. When you believe, everything falls into place.

Well, christianity like most other religions was founded on pain and suffering. When you say that if there was a God, he will remove all suffering. Well, ironically... He did. Other religions teach that you have to be good on earth and the pain is neccessary to teach you lessons so that you may either be siphoned into hell or heaven. What so different about Christianity and so few pastors preach is that all you need is to accept the fact that your sins have been forgiven. You dun need to be pious or super religious to be "saved". The first person to enter heaven according to the bible was a petty thief.The reason why we suffer is because the world is a fallen place. Being a christian does not give us an immunity pass to suffering in this world. Your pass only works on the other side. Christians were matryed throughout history but why do so many still continue to suffer persecution for their beliefs?

Your ability to reason as well as to believe is entirely up to you. It is something sacred which God has bestowed on us amongst billions of other species. However, when you die or briefest moment before you die, do cry out to the Lord if you believe in His resurrection for You too will be saved. Quite a bargain rite?

For He bled that I may live
Junliang

P.S: Doubt you would remember but thank you once again for posting on your blog last year about my friend's cousin who needed a bone marrow transplant. There were people who came because of your post. =)
jamie said…
just wanted to respond to those points youve mentioned. to share not to argue:

1) lets say it was the case that jingwei was assumed to want a christian funeral, the pastor is only doing his duty accordingly. And based on his belief on the religion, he believes that christians are in a 'better place' when they die. so he is only following his religion to be able to tell them not to be sad. because in christianity, when people die they believe that they go to heaven, so there is peace in that knowledge. i dont think its him being insensitive or negating their feelings. but u said u know its not the pastors fault so yeah

anyway the tragedy of how people go is something we cant help but question. but to question is to doubt a higher order, and if we knew how he worked, he wouldnt be called God right?

2) its not so much god expecting you to feel sad or not. but he wants u to know that he understands how sad you are, and clearly he knows why. but it doesnt mean that just because he tells u everything is ok, that u cant be expected to feel sad. he gave us feelings after all. and sometimes you realise that negative feelings such as sadness or sorrow is not isolated on its own. there are alot more lessons in life which results from sadness. im not referring directly to jingwei but yeah in a general sense

3)pastors take medication because god told them to take good care of their health. God gave them life and to hold on to it is holding on to something God and you deem as precious. not just because u know ure going to heaven thus u might as well anyhow kick the bucket

4)i wonder why kind pple may end up in deep six too but then again no one knows what happens for sure after one dies, so maybe what u see on earth is never certain enough to conclude that its unfair.

i know the evangelism thing threw u off, but im just guessing that he being a christian himself, he is witnessing a death which was all too sudden and he wants to urge other people to seek christianity too. i understand how its just selfish because there are people in grief. but i think his intention meant well because he just wanted people to experience something which he has experienced and deems good. its like sharing something which is good. even though people dont believe in it, but u can also look at his intention. and lets say if jingwei was really a christian then i think he would also want others to experience a religion he did. so i dont think he was like deliberating being insensitive.

anyway a friend of mine just passed away too in a bike accident recently. my sincere condolences to you.
Firstly, my condolences to you, your friends and Jing Wei's family.

Many a times, I question myself, why would God allow bad things to happen.Why didn't he stop the 911 bombing ..Or why didn't he stop the tragedies such as the recent tsunami, earthquake or even the loss of you friend in such a tragic manner.

Whatever response anyone can conjure up here will be mere speculation.Man's own assumption.We will have our doubts and our questions.No human can present the most flawless defense for God simply because no human is perfect.I am very sure the very next person who posts his defensive answer, will have it scrutinised so closely for that chink in the armour, and we will just tear that argument down. Only God can answer for his own action.Shucks,even if someone posted here that God told him or her so,it's pretty hard to believe ain't it?

On the issue of evenagelism.Well,one thing i must say is that some christians really got balls.They evangelise shamlessly,not afraid of being ridiculed and all. Silly as it may seem at times. I am really impressed that they are willing to do so for something they believe so passionately. Sadly,i have never met a catholic evangelist, all christians one.Ok,but back to your question,yes, i will agree that it is insensitive just as an insurance agent would be trying to sell a premium plan at the funeral.

Whether JW will like it or not,we will never know right?But If he has found something he really likes and he know it is good,he will share with his good friends right?He won't be selfish but I believe he will not go to the extent of forcing it down their throat if they don't want either.

*sidenote* Aunty Victor Chen: eh...you are wrong.Christians outnumbers Catholics slightly more than 2 to 1 as of the latest population census in singapore.That's a googled fact.=)
Ryaninja said…
Hmmm. Straying off the topic slightly - I ride a motorcycle, and people try to knock me off it everyday.

I'm fully aware of the risks, all of them, including death, but I tell people not to worry. The reason? It's my choice. I love riding, and there's not many things that can give you such a buzz and a feeling of being alive. It's one of the only things I can truly count on to give me enjoyment, every time I do it.

Of course that feeling of being alive could lead to death, but like I said, I know the risks.

I tell people that if I died on my motorbike, no matter what speed I was going, I would be enjoying myself.
This for me would be a good way to go. Please don't misunderstand and think I meant the death of your friend was good, but if I had to choose a way to go, on my bike seems like a good choice to me, and would probably be fast and relatively painless (in comparison to some people's drawn out deaths as they slowly dehabilitate).

Although you must be very sad with the loss of your friend, he may have had this opinion too. Motorcyclists can be a bit like fanatics, we know the risk, but we love it, so we do it anyway!

But I offer my condolances to Jingwei's friends and family.
Gabrielle said…
well, first you targetted toward christianity.

Then what's with the long pull out of the hitchhiker book?
What? To state a point that God's an idiot and man rules or the whole book's so well written thus proves God doesn't exist?

Well, in e first place, humans are never perfect. You think being a christian is easy? They or we, are still capable of making mistakes, christian or not.

you ask so many questions, yet you do not want answers. So do you just want people to AGREE with you?

If you dare to post ranting of anger due to grief(i assume it is) then you shld be very prepared to anger lotsa believers out there.
Gutz4Glory said…
To Gabrielle,

Hey man. Leave the poor gal alone. She is in grief, the last thing she would need is more unneccessary flaming. Though the net is a liberal place whereby everyone are entitled to their opinions, you I presume are a christian and should watch your tongue.

Defending your faith is not by clever words or persuasive arguments. It is by Grace, His grace. I would appreciate if you prevent stroking up other believer's feelings by being self-righteous. Our Lord was hung because of self rigtheous dudes like you. So peace, eh?

Junliang
For He bled that I may live
Mr. Loris said…
Yo Blogvox... Admittedly Xiaxue is no saint.. I'd be the first to suport that statement, what with the ridiculous blogspot userids incident and all, but personally I believe you have way overstepped your boundaries.

Your comment is just so much empty air, a furious structure that builds upon no substance, whatsoever.. That you would capitalise on something like a close friend's death to flame xx is hitting below the belt... that you have nothing concrete to say after all those angry words is just downright dumb (not implying that you are, but if I'm forced to draw conclusions about your character...)

Not getting Jingwei's name incident aside, the fact that the pastor said that he would "like to take this opportunity" to urge those present to accept Christ, or well, not be able to go to heaven like Jingwei did. is just plain insensitive. That's what xx was refering to when she spoke out against the pastor, and not the part about JIngwei being in heaven.

Personally if I were a christian and I knew that pastor, I'd be pushing for his exo-communication.

To conclude, you are just a spoiled foolish brat who is picking on someone out of spite.

My deepest condolences to friends and family of Jingwei.
angela said…
Junliang: Just a thought -- By criticizing him, aren't you being self-righteous too?
---
Anyway, I'm a Christian but I absolutely do agree with Xiaxue that the pastor should not have evangelized at a funeral.

But I hope that you will go easy on any Christians whose behavior offends you. We are, after all, human beings. :)
Mr. Loris said…
To Gabrielle...

You know something? Christianity is one religion that never fails to amaze me. That 3 main stream religions sprung from the same source is one (islam, judaism and christianity).. That proponents of each religion previously mentioned never fail to try kill each other in every time and age is another... That you guys can continue worshiping under an institution that has changed the doctrines and precepts of the religion to fit its needs such that christianity of today in no way resembles christianity during the roman times when it first came into ascension is a large third. Finally, that the modern christianity originated from a small cult back in the roman era is a fourth.

True you can expect to anger lots of believers with this post, but do not forget. A majority of the world's population do not subscribe to christianity. Provoke us enough to rise against your religion and who knows? It'll be christians who will be discriminated against next instead of those doing the discriminating.

Why not just leave it that as long as people do good and all, does it matter what religion they subscribe to?
nadidas said…
i must say i quite disagree w the preachers...i totally agree tt the least he should have done was to remember his name! tsk. the other preacher too, for evangelising at a funeral...i would have thought that he would have been aware of the fact that many people do not know the concept of death other than painful separation and grief..rather insensitive of him to do that... & who wants to hear tt their loved one would not go to heaven? (who was he to have decided that, anyway?!) that was rather...uncalled for.

but you're totally cool to say you don't want to judge his actions. contrary to some others, i believe you are a person who respects other people's opinions. tho u diss them :P, ultimately you give them their space. you rock...

but what i really felt i should share some of my beliefs..not to contradict you at all, really. just to share..
i believe entirely that is God is GOOD..He is the creator of the universe, the earth, the people, us. He cries when we hurt.
Why is there sin & suffering here? because satan is prince of the Earth. (He was banished frm heaven after sinning & was left to rule the earth.) Pain & suffering will continue to prevail as long there is sin on Earth...& as long as Satan is price...sin will be here, there would be pain & suffering...you get the drift. only when Jesus comes to save, will people be saved from sin, & thus pain & suffering...which is soon! He has already planned His arrival, we just need to sit tight, be prepared, & wait. :)

don't blame God for suffering..its all consequence of sin really. if God never gave satan this chance to rule the earth, we would never know what cruel sin can be..we wouldnt be happy in heaven, because we would always have a question of 'what if sin was good?' at the back of our heads...after judgement, everyone will know everything God did was for the best. and there would not be any pain & sadness anymore...

i know you hate all this Jesus talk, but i just felt sad tt u blamed God..He's not doing this shit..satan is...

*i'm not evangelising! nor trying to impress upon you or any other person ideals/theories..just airing my opinions.. & there's so much more to understand if one really wants to get a gist of how God works...which i myself have yet to know/try to know of...
& personally it comforts me to know that God has his hand over everything, & that it is not He who is responsible for grief & suffering, but satan is, & that he would be destroyed someday...*

babe, just go with whatever you believe in. i'm impressed that u can separate dissing individuals & dissing the religion (which you don't! :D )..i love you for that!& u're awesome for standing firm in your ideals, u're a role model :)

Jesus loves you, whether or not you belive in Him :)
Gutz4Glory said…
To angela,

Perhaps my previous post was a bit too harsh. My apologies in that. However my intention was not to criticize him but to tell him to lay off any flaming against wendy.

There is alot of difference between criticizing and rebuking. Our Lord may teach us that we are to see the wooden beam in our eyes before judging others but we too have a responsiblity to admonish our brothers and sisters if they go out of line. There is no self rigtheousness when you rebuke.

A lot of what wendy says about us christians are true and that perhaps we should reflect upon our own actions. Even if what she says is untrue, we should not flame her. Afterall, persecution is a way of life of a christian, isn't it not? No matter what nasty things others say of us, we are to respond in love, not in spite. What Gabrielle posted tantamounted almost to a challenge which is uncalled for considering that Wendy is in grief over her friend.

Therefore, I urge all christians who are reading her blog not to flame but rather send her your condolences instead. It is the only proper thing to do considering Jingwei's death.

Junliang
For He bled that I may live
Ayu said…
hi xiaxue,

i send my condolences to Jingwei's family and friends.

I can understand your anger from your point of view but it's always good to put try to put yourselves in other people's shoes to try to understand why they did what they did.

Christians and non-Christians are humans. And no human is born perfect except Jesus. (From a Christian view)

A non-Christian might not agree with the above statement but it doesn't make him/her a better/worse person.

Different people have different ways of expressing their beliefs. I don't have the right to judge who's right or wrong. In fact, no one has the right to judge another person's actions, that includes you wendy, whether you like to hear it or not. I don't have the right to judge you either, just want to tell you to try to forgive and forget what has happened in order to move on in life.

wendi
Jing said…
My condolences to Jingwei and his friends and family. I normally wouldn't have chosen to comment except that the recently deceased disturbingly happens to share my name. Is it perchance written as 经纬? Such a banal tragedy is quite shocking and it allows one to properly reflect on the tenuousness of life and just how vulnerable we are. At least I certainly am doing so.
tjhinn said…
My condolences to you, Jingwei's friends and family. I would never wish such a tragic death upon anyobody (to The Bush perhaps, but none else).

On the other hand however, I'm glad that your post has created such a 'debate' about religion. I myself have some unanswered questions I would like to shout about.

First off, I really hated the fact that every single religion in this world proclaimed that:
1. You must believe in their particular religion to get to Heaven.
2. No other religion is right, their religion is the one absolut truth out there.

I find it impossible that so many fine people will have to go to hell, just for the fact of not sharing the same religion as the one true religion. I know many fine Muslim, Catholic, Buddhist and Christian friends, and I really cannot justify sending any of them to Hell. Not even a chance.

Why can't there be one Universal Religion that encompasses everything? If a person goes to Hell or Heaven, should it not be based on his/her wrongdoings/virtues? I also comes from a quite undeveloped country, and there are many indigenous tribes that does not have roads, telephones, TVs, and the likes. As such, they (and their previous generations) are very likely to not even have heard about Christianity, Muslim, etc, ever. Does that mean they are absolutely banished to eternity in Hell afterwards?

No, I refuse to believe that God is so shallow. I believe that above everything else, a God must be a just one.
Unknown said…
hi, i think that the pastor thought that if 'magong' can be played at chinese funerals then why not preaching???? im sure he feels its just another open house!
just the same, sorry about ur fren xiaxue.
Unknown said…
correction! MAJONG PLAYED AT FUNERALS...btw, i never heard u blog on the subject??? what DO u think????
cheers
Unknown said…
correction! MAJONG PLAYED AT FUNERALS...btw, i never heard u blog on the subject??? what DO u think????
cheers
yy said…
My condolences to you, Jingwei's friends and family. its really saddening to see this kind of incidents happen.

i dont have a religion. but i believe there is someone up there. maybe one maybe many. @times i dont believe there is. i believe in my own experiences. it maybe right or not. but it is my experience. some of you might feel the same.

religion is a very large grey area.i feel that there is no right and wrong. everyone has their own opinions. and their own beliefs.

religion is all abt beliefs isnt it? believing in it. since u believe in it, most prob u would defend it. just like u would defend ur good friends from flames. because u believe in them. or even try to spread it(religion). im sure everyone has their fair share of friends/family asking you to go pray with them. be it temple or church.. (i dont have malay and indian friends asking me to go pray with them..)

there are times when i wonder. if there was someone up there. who had control over all these, how to die, when to die, was it an punishment or relieving the person from suffering. how many people died in 911? how many died in the tsunami in bintan? did these people deserve it?

i know im really out of point. but i just feel that religion is about inviduals and their thinking. believe means believe. no. then no. there is no in-between kind of stuffs.

Hopefully no one get offended by this. i dont think i did offend anyone. but if i did, sorry. its up to you to believe it. and make an action countering my statement.
Xian said…
There is something called CHOICE. God will not force us to love Him, if you are not willing to. He loves us, regardless of what we feel towards Him.

"If God truly wanted to take him away, why did God chose such a tragic death? " -- Did God tell your friend to ride a motorbike? Or did your friend make the decision to ride one, albeit all the dangers out there? There are consequences for every action we make (Butterfly effect).

Jesus came down to earth. He not only saw, but also went thru' the sufferings that we do. He understands what each individual is going thru'. Again, it is your choice whether you want to continue to self-indulge in sorrow, or move on. But He promised us His comfort & His peace, if only we seek & ask.

I can't answer all your questions you have, because all of us, like you, are learning each day. We can't expect to understand every thing. But i do believe that if you seek, you will be answered.

Nobody can force you, but perhaps it is time for you to stop blaming God for everything that happens. Have you ever try to find out more about this "God" that you have heard so much about? You may be annoyed at the so-called evangelists, but have you ever wonder if these evangelists typifies/represent the real Christ?

Like what Gandhi once said,
" I like their Christ, I don't like their christians". If you look at christians as evidence that Jesus lives, then I think you are looking in the wrong place.
Madelicieux said…
hmm... Jingwei must have been a very close friend to you. I do agree with you on the point that the preacher conducting the funeral was insensitive. But one thing i learnt is that we should never put our commitments and standards on other people. Im not saying its not right, but it is not correct either. As well, Christianity is beyond a religion. I would have never known God had i not step into church and felt His presence. Im not preaching to you. But i want you to know that Christians soul-win out of their love of God (in any case, this shd be the way, not doing it for the sake of doing it for whatsoever reasons).
And as for the article from Doughlas Adams, all i can see is only resistance upon resistance from knowing who God really is. doubts upon doubts u claim God speaking while i feel that in fact, its the devil speaking. for total truth, u can attempt to read the bible for true understanding of God and all ur answers will be unleashed. Even though i know u wun read it!
This post is not meant to preach or advertise about Christianity. All i want to conclude about is you can never get different results from doing the same things over and over again. There got to be renewing of ur mind before u can allow new understanding to come forth.
Anonymous said…
I pray that the family will one day find peace.

And that is all I want to say.
Jared said…
I feel compelled to leave a comment. I'll keep it brief and to the point.

Xiaxue, i know exactly how you feel. Similarly, i have nothing against the worship. I have seen so much hypocrisy and eccentricity among christians that honestly i am totally put off by the religion already, even though almost my whole family are christians except my mom, young siblings(they are wavering, cant blame them, they are only 15 and below).

And i agree with some posters. The "God put you on earth for you to come to his side" sardonic comment esp. I offer my condolences. I understand how its like to lose someone. My friend commited suicide.

Anyway, if you have time, do check out this particular post.

http://kenneth1983.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_kenneth1983_archive.html

Dated Feb 13th.

This represents my view on this issue.
mmvagabondmm said…
There they go again BOSS, askin lotsa questions, thinkin they know all the answers, arguin, justifyin their beliefs. Is it the fear of not knowin the truth or point to this life BOSS that makes us act like this, or maybe we are to smart for our own good? Partly its your makin BOSS you let us evolve to the point that we ourselves can be our own BOSS. But I dont blame you, for you will always try to understand us and will show us mercy after weve shown our lack of faith. And for that I thank you BOSS :-)
mmvagabondmm said…
There they go again BOSS, askin lotsa questions, thinkin they know all the answers, arguin, justifyin their beliefs. Is it the fear of not knowin the truth or point to this life BOSS that makes us act like this, or maybe we are to smart for our own good? Partly its your makin BOSS you let us evolve to the point that we ourselves can be our own BOSS. But I dont blame you, for you will always try to understand us and will show us mercy after weve shown our lack of faith. And for that I thank you BOSS :-)
nobody said…
diggingnose:
"But one thing i learnt is that we should never put our commitments and standards on other people."
as ideal as that may be, do you really think it's possible for anybody on earth to -not- do that? you just did the exact same thing to xiaxue. in fact, you suggested she read the bible "even though (you) know she won't read it". that's a judgement on xiaxue that you yourself have made.

xian:
"Nobody can force you, but perhaps it is time for you to stop blaming God for everything that happens."
i don't believe xiaxue ever blamed god. firstly, she can't blame something she doesn't believe in. secondly, just like you said in your gandhi quote, she's blaming dumb people who like to associate themselves with him.

anyway, xiaxue, i totally agree with you. evangelism is really one of the ugliest things on earth, in my opinion, and that incident you described is really one of the most tasteless i've heard.
Mr_BuRns said…
well u did it again man XX, excellant post as usual highly charged with emotions...but dun u think tt by not posting this blog entry ur fren in qn will not be in the spotlight once again???

eh and sorry man my batch also got 1 spec pass away...
Fate & Destiny said…
Come on, it's wrong to preach abt your religion at a funeral in the first place. My opinion is that, if the pastor want to make sure that he doesn't get the name wrong by keep looking at the paper, he could have jolly well did that b4 hand. I dun see a need to keep looking at the paper during the process.

Abt the religious thingy, I am a free thinker cos all religion in some similar way say that if you dun meet a certain requirement, you goes to hell. And if you are not part of the reiligion, you also go to hell. If that's the case, everybody would be in hell cos if your are a christian, you would go to hell cos you're not muslim and the same goes for the muslim and the vicious cycle carries on. And all religious books are written by man, and god knows what have been changed in the books content over the ages.

I love that Douglas thing.
Fate & Destiny said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
aspen said…
Remember: Organized religion is bad.
bobby said…
i've a rather similar experience to what you had. But this time in another scenario which was kinda out of this world too. somewhere u would never expect to be evangelized. It's just the lack of respect shown by some Christians to other people and other religion which i really can't stand. http://republicofbobby.blogspot.com/2005/04/singapore-blogs.html this was the entry which shows how much some of them (i hope its jus a minority) really irks me.
genevieve//* said…
heYZ.. I COMPLETELY know how you feel. As mentioned in Shuyin's blog, my great grandmother left around the same time as your friend.




Wen that blardy pastor wnats us to convert BECAUSE OF MY LATE GRANDMOTHER is so stupid. Claiming that death is a door to eternity life. So if we still want to see my late great grandmother again, accept christ. SIAO! I'm ok with preaching, but NOT during a funeral.





About the name, maybe he can't help to read it properly. >.< MOrever he did not know him in person, so, cannot blame lah. But pastors whom preached salvation during a funeral is really shitty. I thought they were asked over to pray for the deseased for them to RIP. Siao one.





For my case, they even invited my WHOLE family to attend their church svc. I hate people who make use of the dead to preach. Since they say Jesus is so good, then why use my late great grandmother to preach? Its really contradicting.




(m i too firece? Ops..)
cake said…
Too much la..

there is a place and time for everything, and that is definitely the wrong place and time...
Anonymous said…
it's amazing how posts on religion can always spark off great, instant responses. while the name-mentioning part was absolutely horrible, what each religion believes spurs their people in different ways.
I'm not a Christian. However, I only know that Christians are trying to convert everyone before the End comes so everyone can be "accepted by Christ"... Perhaps that's why many Christians are always trying to convert us non-Christians...

While the pastor could have tried to remember a 3-syllable name before giving his "speech", i suppose he could not help but fail to do so because for the whole year, he would have a lot of names in his sub-consciousness, all floating around him.

I just hope that you would try to be more gracious and let it go. Posts about religion are always very sensitive and are a potential social-bomb...

My condolences to you. My father drove past the accident that day and told me it was a horrific sight.
Xian said…
Nobody,
You don't believe XX ever blamed God, but whether she really blamed God, it is really for her to know and us to find out, isn't it? I don't think she needs you to defend her - she can defend herself alright.

"Evangelism is really one of the ugliest things on earth". When you are trying to make your opinion known, or when you are selling your point across, is it considered evangelizing as well? You are also trying to plant into people's minds your beliefs,arent' you?

Genz,
"Since they say Jesus is so good, then why use my late great grandmother to preach?" - Are you questioning the goodness of Jesus based on what you see in christians? Do you think you are only seeing one portion of the picture then?
Sang said…
He said... he'd "like to take this opportunity to urge those present to accept Christ, or well, not be able to go to heaven like Jingwei did" ????

Wow. For a second there I thought he was implying that Jingwei went to hell.

Don't be too hard on us christians though. :P We wouldn't be called christians if we weren't hypocrites.
rEbElli0us-bLUe said…
First of all, my condolences to both JW's family and friends.

I would say i have nothing against christianity.. i personally am a free thinker but i respect any other religions. For one reason, it's ones belief. I am totally disguisted by the pastor's action. Yes, it is no crime to preach. But hello, we're talking about a funeral here. This is a totally insensitive thing to do. One of the duties of a pastor is to advertise his own religion. That i must agree. But don't you think that by preaching during a funeral, it's no difference from rubbing salt to wound? The people present at the funeral are grieving over JW's death, and here you're telling me how good your religion is and that you should join so that god will take you with him after you die? What nonsense! So you mean people like me[free-thinkers] will burn in hell just because we don't believe in him?
I get very annoyed when someone on the street comes over and talk to me about their religion WHEN in the first place, i don't even know them. What's with them? N most of the time, it will be a christian doing it. I mean religion is supposed to be about your own believes. If someone forces you into believing something, then it's called forcing already. Nobody enjoys being forced into doing something.
I do believe that god exists. However, i must say that, god is just as imperfect as we are. If he loves us, why are there so many tragic deaths happening around us everyday? Just because he loves us, he wants to bring us with him, we have to die in pain? So is this where we use the proverb "no pain, no gain?" I find it rather stupid. What's with the tsunami incident? the Earthquakes? Since god is doing this to bring half the world with him, why doesnt he just take the other half of the world with him. It's really cruel to separate the people from their family, esp kids. Enough said, i just feel that those Christians reading XX's entry should be more rational. Hey, she's grieving now and what's wrong with ranting in her blog. I repeat, it's HER blog. Doesn't she have a right to speak her mind? Don't tell me, you don't rant when you're feeling upset? Everybody has emotions and it is only natural if they vent their frustrations on something. Nobody's perfect ok? Each and everybody of us here has flaws. Before you critizing someone, don't you think you should reflect on yourself first?
UltraVinz said…
Newpaper editors passed on this article!?!

Good thing though, coz I don't buy Newpaper & your readership here probably surpass Newpaper by a few folds!
Jordan Goh said…
Very seldom will I agree with what you post up Wendy. But I fully agree that it is fucking downright insensitive for the pastor to preach the gospel while presiding over a funeral.

The topic of religion has always, and will always be a highly sensitive and hugely debated issue between the two camps. I shall not fan the flames further by getting involved in this chicken and duck talk.

I sincerely urge everyone else to stop preaching/defending/slamming the Christianity faith. Someone just died tragically. This is not the time.

I am awfully sorry for your loss Wendy. Please accept my deepest condolences.
bao_xian said…
You said this, "I urge the people leaving comments to be sensitive to both JW's family and friends, as well as Christians reading this.There is no need to be harsh or rude if you want your opinion heard. Anything too rude, I will delete."

Well, I find your post too rude, can I delete that? Who are you to judge if others are rude when you yourself is rude. Look at the tremendous amount of vulgarities you use in your blog.

You do not know God. Even I may not know Him well. Everyday we are made to suffer although God claims that He loves us and that He should not make us suffer. But because we are just creations of God, just simple human beings. We will NEVER have enough wisdom to understand what God is trying to do to us. We cannot use humane thinking and analysis to judge on God's actions.

The only thing we can do is : Trust Him.

God bless you

Angered Me.
kai said…
my lecturer once told my class this story:

his fren was not into any religion, but he believe in afterlife and figured that he has to believe in some religion..

he viewed all options and in the end choose christianity because it guarantees the believer to go into heaven after he dies.

That, is one of the saddest thing i have ever heard.
kahsoon said…
please respect other religions
comradewo1f said…
It is amazing that so many bloggers can remember your dear friend's name so well but not the pastor.

Don't ask people to respect each other's religions if you can't answer the questioner of your faith. Looks like you have no respect for your religion too.

Because if you did, you would have taken the time to find the answers yourself.

Nice entry Xiaxue. Thought-provoking.
Jingwei said…
God’s creation of life vs neo-Darwinism will always be a heated debate. While atheists might question the existence of a super supreme out there, religious people will ask the atheists to prove evolution and the famous cause and effect theory. What triggered Big bang – the birth of universe? If birds were evolved from land creatures, then why can’t we find fossil fuels of their intermediate lifeforms, ie “birds” with semi-evolved wings, etc. Thereby, religion serves as a medium to answer things that have not or will never be scientifically discovered/proven. (I know I’d contradicted myself but maybe someone from the church can tell me who created God?)
---
Miss Wendy:

I’ve read a book on near-death situations. A few seconds before you die, you see light at the end of a tunnel and images of different stages of life appear in front of you, fast yet vividly. To some extent, I believe so. And I believe that the images they were referring to are life experiences you have encountered with your loved ones.

Many a times, when the people around me are upset or angry with someone (in this case that particular pastor), I will tell them the minute before death, you are not thinking about the people you hate, but the loved ones who have had been with you throughout your life. So Wendy, please do reduce your bemoaning. We all have hatred at some point in time, but learn to forgive and forget. Spend more time showering the people around you with love because that is the only thing you are going to remember and bring it with you after death(if you believe in life after death). If you have already been doing so, good!

Afterall this is your life, so I have no right to tell you how to live it. Just stay happy but do continue to grief and remember the loved ones you have had lost.

Warmest regards and condolences,
Jingwei
Unknown said…
Just as you say Christians...or rather, evangelisms, should not be butting into your friends funeral, but your friend, Jingwei, could also be questioning why are you butting into his funeral?

Maybe he wanted this.
aviatrix said…
XIAXUE

Regarding those missing blogs, you may like to consider saving your rants in Word or something BEFORE clicking post. This is not the 1st time blogger hang on you and you should be smart enough to avoid recurring fiascos instead of bitching about it.
grazer-by said…
Note: just hope to clear up some misunderstandings abt the christian faith, not to evangelise.

"...pastors tell the story of how Xtians all go into Heaven... "

Not all christains will go to heaven ( Matthew 7-21-23). Being a
christain is just a label isnt it? who is a christian?
a religion you put in those application forms and all?
someone who believe jesus exists, died and all but dont see the need to act according to Gods' will?
someone who justs proclaim hes' a christain?

these pastors should
elaborate... Christains who are not merely sunday church goers or
simply do "christain duties" but those still believe/ believe in
Jesus at their point of death will go to heaven (John 3:16). "non
christains" can also go to heaven and "christains" may not go to
heaven.

Q1 b "If God truly wanted to take him away, why did God chose such a
tragic death? "

God did not "choose" his death... these things are just an a really
unfortunate case of cause and effect. By that question, it seems like
ur suggesting that these accidents haven been "planned" by God?

Q4 " If it is true that dying means God wants to take us to him, then
how come pastors take medication when they have terminal cancer?"

dying doesnt mean God wants to take us to him in heaven. Dying means ur heart is starting to stop beating forever. But, in death, (whenever and however it occurs) our spirits will be with God. pastors, like all humans, have the choice to live. why single out pastors? why dont just ask why all
christains try to prolong our lives?
or should ur query be, "so why do people die if God is all loving"?

(this doesnt answer e question, but i feel that in the first
place e question is not right cos God never quoted "dying means God wants
to take us to him")

Q2) yes this jesus guy expects us to feel upset. we have emotions!
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8."a time to weep.. a time to laugh". But from the
believers' point of view, this whole thing abt death (and
sufferings etc) is that do grieve for the loss of loved one, do be
upset. But ultimately, look at the big picture, do not be upset becos
he's in a "better" place.
anaology: you scored 49/100 for a test. be upset that you failed. but
look from a larger perspective, it is not the be all end all, still
at least u learned ur mistake and theres still e final exam.


just a side note: As to your babel fish thing and how one tries to use
logic to disprove god. hey, a babel fish doesnt even exist! you know
how some ppl use that "if god can do everything den can he create a
stone he cannot lift "? personally i feel thats a
trap question that flouted the all important rule of logic. one cannot put a
contradictory set of element togehter in a statement... logic is not meant to muffle , logic is used to have a clear cut answer worked out in a step wise, rational manner.

look at it this way, if you must, with logic. Christainity is either
true or not true. you (and the many other readers) obviously believe the latter.
yes, granted, many "christains" out there just accept blindly.you
canot stand ppl who think illogically. its good to question
ruthlessly. but... like ur frd said, these things are limited by finite
human wisdom. i know you dont expect all ur qns to be answered
perfectly, but i hope i have answered some of urs adequtely, (by ur
standard)
Dave said…
Just a reminder for all.

This blog is hers. I believe she has the right to speak forth anything she feels like.
No use stopping her.


But, guard your mind not to be sub-conciously absorbing and agreeing with everything she has said.

Decern right from wrong for yourselves.

All these she said are just her point of views.

Christianity's my religion but those words above has nothing to do with it.

Think about it.
Wei Li said…
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Wei Li said…
Firstly, my condolences. I can't agree more with Xia Xue.

Christians are trying to convert everyone so that everyone can be "accepted". They pray for the non-Christians to be "accepted".

Christians are always trying to convert the rest of the masses.

There's totally nothing wrong with it. But they are over-doing it. Over-doing.

In just shortly 10 days, I have 2 groups of Christians who came knocking on my door, trying to preach!

Some of my neighbours were offended, especially those who believe in another religion.

This is quoted from one of the followers, "Uncle, why you believe in burning the joss-sticks and stuffs like that. There's no proof but only to pollute. But Christianity has got Bible written by people all over the world. It can't be wrong.".

What a pretty weak argument. Take a look at China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. The amount of people who believe in other religions are quite significant. Are you saying that they are also ignorant?

What I'm trying to say is that there are a few black sheeps in everything. And these are the ones who create bad image and reputation of the religion.

I do admit there are some Christians who are really good and respect our freedom of religion.

For those black sheeps, it is time to wake up and reflect on your behavior. Stop being an extremist.

My Condolences,
Wei Li
http://www.cuteworm.blogspot.com/
Icon said…
Everyone dies someday so what's the big deal?

Can anyone proofed the existence of heaven, hell or god?

Who wrote, intepreted, and translated the bible, scriptures, koran? human beings ok?
I have to admit this is heard alot by non-christians. But from our point of view, we are commanded to go and spread the good news (also know as the Gospel). We call it the GREAT COMMISSION. It is what we see as our purpose is life. But it is not to be rude or hurtful... but sometimes it is uncomfortable.
I believe the pastor (as many Christians feel) we are to take every opportunity. We also believe that we do not convert anyone, it is the Holy Spirit working in them and them responding or choosing not to. So you see by that belief, we are to only spread the Gospel, and let God work on the hearts of the ones listening.
I believe there are many anaologies in the bible that speak of this... comparisions of throwing seed on different soil,etc...
I know it offends you... and I am sorry you feel it hurt the memory of your friend.
The Bible also speaks of Christians being rejected (as Jesus has been)... so we understand this will happen. Again, trying to give you insight into what Christians are thinking.

I hope this helped.. Cheers!
I have to admit this is heard alot by non-christians. But from our point of view, we are commanded to go and spread the good news (also know as the Gospel). We call it the GREAT COMMISSION. It is what we see as our purpose is life. But it is not to be rude or hurtful... but sometimes it is uncomfortable.
I believe the pastor (as many Christians feel) we are to take every opportunity. We also believe that we do not convert anyone, it is the Holy Spirit working in them and them responding or choosing not to. So you see by that belief, we are to only spread the Gospel, and let God work on the hearts of the ones listening.
I believe there are many anaologies in the bible that speak of this... comparisions of throwing seed on different soil,etc...
I know it offends you... and I am sorry you feel it hurt the memory of your friend.
The Bible also speaks of Christians being rejected (as Jesus has been)... so we understand this will happen. Again, trying to give you insight into what Christians are thinking.

I hope this helped.. Cheers!
d. said…
2) "So ... Does this Jesus guy expect us to feel upset, or not??? (If you don't get the contradiction, I am not going to bother explaining)"

There's a story in John 11 (in the Bible) about how Jesus' good friend Lazarus died. When Jesus went to Lazarus' tomb, "Jesus wept". I guess that as Christians, we grieve when our loved ones pass away, but we still take comfort in the fact that we'll see them in heaven - so the separation is not absolute and eternal.

3) "If it is true that dying means God wants to take us to him, then how come pastors take medication when they have terminal cancer? Just go la."

Paul the apostle talks about this in Philippians (one book in the Bible; this particular book was written by Paul). Quoting the first chapter of Philippians, from verse 19 until 26:


Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labour for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me."

In other words, Paul deeply wanted to just go to heaven and be with Christ straightaway, but he knew that he was on earth for the purpose of serving the people and bringing more people to Christ.
Evangelyn said…
Yeah i agree with u Xiaxue...i am a christian and i went to my aunt's funeral two yrs ago, she is not a regular in church but she do attend church now and then. The pastor do not personally know her and was called to conduct the funeral service...the things that he said really offended my family terribly cos like what u said the pastor also said something to get pple to come and accept christ. Yes i agree that to SOME CHRISTIANS out there, they may think it is alrite cos they want more pple to worship God but hey fellow CHRISTIANS do u know that, furneral is a solemn event and it is definately not a way to get pple to come to know GOD and becum a christian. The pastor himself should know that this should be done in a church and not in a furneral. AND YES i agree with XIAXUE that this pastor is like just being called to do his job becos he dunno the deceased and the fact that he was so rude in not memorising the deceased name really makes me wonder IS HE EVEN WORTHY TO BE A PASTOR...i basically think GOD would not want him to do that. LOOK AT POPE INSTEAD, DID HE ASKED THE JEWS, MUSLIMS AND BUDDHISTS TO BECUM CHRISTIANS.. NOOO HE ACCEPT THEM AS WORSHIPPERS OF DIFFERENT RELIGION..THATS Y POPE IS SO WELL LOVED BY THE WORLD.
chuchups said…
I lost a primary school friend too..through suicide and I totally understand your emotions..I would have written a post of disbelief and anger at that pastor too..

all the best.
the Queen said…
religion is not something that should be thrown into public debate if possible

religion is personal. religion should not be enforced on others. but however, religion should be protected.

*i would like to state i'm not christian but i believe in not attacking religion OR the people from it*

sometimes certain things that people do in the name of their religion may piss people off. not only Christians have pissed people off by being overbearing.

the pastor was wrong in being overbearing, over enthusiastic. perhaps he just wanted to share about Christianity but unfortunately at the wrong time. Christianity cannot be all that bad. there are 1.5 billion believers in the world.

at least the pastor, as muddle headed as he was, bothered to make sure that he got your friend's name correct. that was a sign of respect. would you rather him say "uh....*pause*Jingwei...." he did not know your friend personally.

pastors do many things. they do weddings, they do funerals, they do counselling. i don't expect them to be perfect at everything but at least they TRY their best. sometimes when they get stressed they say things that perhaps are not acceptable to others. give them a chance! i'm sure that Christianity teaches them not to offend people on purpose if possible.

maybe to some people he was sounding like he was forcing the religion onto them at your friend's funeral. but his family asked for a Christian funeral because Jingwei expressed interest in it. they could have opted for a simple one without religion involved, so such mistakes committed by the pastor should not be focused on so much because anyway, Christian funerals are like that. people do try to evangelise, subtly or not.

i'm sorry that your friend Jingwei got taken away so early. i had a friend who also died young due to road accident. she had a christian funeral even though her family wasn't because she went to church a few years before she died.she didn't say anything about her funeral, she couldn't have. but the family still opted for a christian one.it's all about choices.

people have to pass on, whether at a young age or old. let's just focus on the kind of life that the person led, not the way they got taken away and how their funeral was like.

forgive the pastor, don't get angry with him. just focus on jingwei's life, and how he was a friend to you because i'm sure that is what he wanted you to remember, not the silly mistake of a pastor.
I got stuffed said…
I'll just like to know. If Adam and Eve were the first people, who wrote that story? And don't give me a dumb answer like, "It was passed down by mouth." because it is natural for all human-beings to exxgerate so maybe that story isn't entirely true??
Evangelyn said…
Xiaxue, it is true that Christians do believe that when someone dies, he or she will go up to heaven and be with GOD..it is something that we christians do rejoice about...For friend who died, u may be wonderign y GOD let human suffer in this world..i believe God really has a plan..if not y r u even born in the 1st place...GOd can easily just say I dun wan you to be in this world but he did not...God do work wonders too..this are the things maybe i would disagree with u..but the way the pastor handle the whole funeral service, i totally agree with ya..=) BTW NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE GOOD...AS EVERYONE SINS TOOO IF NOT Y WOULD GOD DIE FOR OUR SINS..I ALWAYS FEEL THAT NOT ALL CHURCH ARE GOOD IN S'PORE..sometimes they just teach non logical teachings which i refused to mention the names of the church..but y dun all of you go explore all the churches in S'pore and listen to their teachings..i believe everyone will be shocked that every church teach different things. It is seriously based on each person's belief and opinions. HMMM I CAN SEE THAT SOME CHRISTIANS ARE SOOO ANGERED IN SEEING THIS ENTRIES BY XIAXUE...HEY COULD ALL OF YOU TRY TO BE MORE LIKE GOD...FORGIVE AND FORGET..DUN FOLLOW THE FOOTSTEPS OF SATAN PLS..I MEAN EVERYONE GOT DIFF OPINIONS...EACH RELIGION WILL DEFEND THEMSELVES...PLS LEARN FROM POPE...U CAN BUY HIS BOOKS IN STORES AND SEE HOW HE FORGIVE PPLE...I AM ASHAMED BY SOME CHRISTIANS WHO THROW THEIR ANGER HERE.. WAT A SHAME TO CHRISITANS!!! I believe god wun do that. (I AM REFERING TO THOSE ANGITATED CHRISTIANS ENTRIES)
Evangelyn said…
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I got stuffed said…
i don't mean to be rude, but isn't God being a bit egoistic to not allow those people who don't believe him to go to Heaven?? not that it actually matters. And how do Christians know that this place even exists? Have they died before and returned to tell the world??
honglaoshi said…
my condolences to the tragic demise of your friend. i know it must have been painful to lose a close friend at this age..

i do agree with California Italian's comment.. that as Christians we do not convert anyone, but merely introduce to them to the Lord by spreading the gospel, and let God work inside the people we bring to Him. The decision to convert or not lies entirely on the individual...

Anyway.. i'm just attempting to clear up some misunderstanding on the christian faith.. not all Christians who are very involved in the Church nor claim themselves to be devout christians are allowed to enter the Holy Land.

"Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven" - Matthew 7:21

"For many are called, but few chosen." - Matthew 20:16

In fact, God's faithful servant Moses, who toiled and laboured to bring the Isarelites out from Egypt and into the Promised Land, was denied entry into the land itself.

to "i got stuffed".. how do i know there is such a place? honestly, i dont know. and despite being a christian, im also not guaranteed a place in heaven. all i have with me is simple trust. its like taking a flight.. how do i know whether or not the plane i'm on will end up in a plane crash? i don't know. all i know is, i place my trust in the pilot and his skills. because if i never learnt to trust, i will never be able to acomplish anything... including taking a flight..

to xiaxue.. im really sorry about your friend's demise, and i have to agree with you that the pastor who urged the congregation present at the funeral to "take the oppurtunity" was downright rude.. im not against preaching the gospel (i do it myself) but i just feel that there has to be a place and time for everything..

once again, my deepest condolences to your friend's family and friends.
G said…
i knew jingwei cos i was frm nj. its kinda sad to know tt he has passed away, tho i didnt noe him personally.

its really sad to know tt the pastor took e memorial service as some kinda promotional campaign. sounds really degarding. seems like most christian pastors r the same. e same thing happened at my grandmother's wake. was kinda irritated at it. seemed more like a preaching session to rope more pple into his church instead of a memorial. if i may ask, which church was e pastor from? i think he sound like e same pastor we had e other time.
CheaYee said…
I haven't had time to read the other comments. anyway, i'm here NOT to argue with XX.

I understand the grief that you have for your friend. The thing is, whether Christians or not, all of us are humans. At some point or another, we will make some mistakes in our life.

If any Christian out there preaches something that shouldn't be done, and yet still does it, would he excluded from judgement? Or course not!

Yeah, and it was probably an oversight on the pastor's side that he should have taken the effort to be more conscientious and discerning about feelings of the acquaitances of the just deceased.
Even if he wanted to evangelise, he should have chosen another happier time to do so.

Anyway, take this time to grieve and mourn. All of us have our periods to do so.

Yet, I think XX should take this time to reflect. Death is something that will happen to us sometime or another in our life. It would be good if something positive came out of this experience.

Let us forgive one another and live together in peace.

"Yet after the mourning, there is joy!" If I shall say so.
My condolences. I can fully understand the pains and griefs of JW's family and close friends. Just to share that I had 2 loved ones who left me too(my granny whom I grew up with and my father). I was totally wretched when my granny passed away when I was only 20. She's the "first death" I had to deal with and I admit it was really hard. My life was breaking into pieces and it became suicidal but some things happened alter which I shall bother to go into further...

2 yrs back, I also had anor friend who died in a bike accident like JW. His bike also skidded and his head slammed into a big tree and was totally "wrecked" (cos no better words could describe his condition). I was one of the few friends who dared to take a last look at him. It was devasting scene for me, let alone his family members. Hence, Xiaxue, I can fully understand why you are so mad with the pastor. Even any other sensitive and sensible Christians out there would have been mad at that situation you were in. It's really unfortunate (and I can't explain why) that you keep meeting the "wrong person" to tell you what Christ really is. Not preaching here, but I did have my fair share of such experience (i.e. meeting the wrong kind of people) and I have to admit that it can be a big put off when you heard such pple talk.

I remembered that just before my granny passed away in the hospital, 2 persons approached us, the family memebers and my dying granny trying to "sell" their religion. One was a Christian, one was from a Japanese religion. They saw the "chance" and seized it, but they didn't realise that they are bringing their own religion a very bad name. Not that I have anything against any religion, but I think there's always a better time and place to evangelise.

Xiaxue, I certainly hope you will have better "luck" in meeting the "right" kind of person in future...

PS: I think it's very great of JW's family to give him a Christian funeral (though it seems that it might be a bad decision).
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JT. said…
I so agree with you, 'Xue. I attended a junior's funeral and the pastor grinned his way thru and kept going, "And you know what? ..." Throughout, which made me want to slap him. His "gold as pure as water" made me want to laugh. If he knew better, gold isn't exactly IN for people of our generation, nor was it going to ease our pain. These "God's servants" should reflect on thier over-the-top attitude during such services, which they clearly enjoy too much.
CheaYee said…
Just to end the issue.

Let's just FORGIVE ONE ANOTHER
AND LIVE IN PEACE.
JT. said…
THat said i don't mean all pastors and priests are grinning at such events. you all know what i mean.

Xiaxue: many people cannot pronounce Chinese names, even if they speak Chinese all their lives. Forgive that poor bloke he was probably one of them too.

And to Xtians out there: the true believers who are pure at heart rule. the wannabes are the ones ruining your image. Those r the ones who joined church for friends and fun, instead of spiritual development.
JT. said…
And I speak from a free thinker's point of view.

(I renounced Buddhism due to an unpleasant incident which is out-of-point here.)
Hanim Mohamed said…
Xia,

Will not comment on Christianity per se, but rather on the pastors..

Muthafucking rude!

Cant find a more apt analogy than an insurance agent selling great premium at a funeral.

Be brave gal.. JW will always be with u.
HL_milk said…
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HL_milk said…
Hi Xiaxue...

I have been reading your blog since god-knows-when but this is the first time I am posting a comment simply because, I witnessed Jingwei's accident. I didn't exactly see how it happened but I did see his bike and the pool of blood on the road. It was terrifying and I cried almost instantly when I saw his bloodied helmet lying by the roadside.

I was really traumatized because here I am on a BIKE and there it was, a BIKE accident. Jingwei's accident has hit me REALLY hard. That is why... I totally understand what you are going through. The grief of losing a friend...

My condolences to Jingwei's family and friends. And you, do take care.
Xiao Wen said…
Your editor is a wise man indeed. Imagine the amount of outrage or the number of letters to the forum had your article been published.

I am very very sorry for your loss.
peacelover said…
hey folks,

I'm a Christian, though not that pious, not a regular church goer, i do wanna express my thoughts about this whole whooha here.

Let me tell you something about near death, i've been there b4, had an accident, almost died, but for some reason god wans me to live on.

when ur dying, u can see flashback of your life, and u will understand how to treasure it.

I learn that Jesus loves all of us. No matter what you do, how silly and stupid is our action, he forgives us.

We human has the choice to choose ---- which is FREEWILL. We can choose to be insensitive -- like what xiaxue mentioned-- the priest at the funeral being an ass. We can even choose to be rude as well. Shout your KNN as much as u you like.

The priest at the funeral is just like any of you here. He is not perfect, human are never gonna be perfect, so if he think he is, then screw him.

Only our creator is perfect. So we have to learn each day to be as patience as HE is, as loving as HE is.

So folks, there are christians who are persuasive, insensitive and rude. But they are merely human... just like you and me.

JOHN 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Anonymous said…
Religion is very much based on faith. If there really is a logical explanation for everything that a religion preaches, then it would be more of a science than a religion. Religion is meant to surpass logic, thus giving people a glimmer of hope.

So i guess it's normal that people do not have the answers to all the questions or discrepancies that may be posed. Thus, i feel that it is justifiable that those difficult questions may never have a logical explanation to them.
peacelover said…
Responding to


I got stuffed said...
i don't mean to be rude, but isn't God being a bit egoistic to not allow those people who don't believe him to go to Heaven??


Thats a tough question for human to answer.
Been to heaven, i have not. Almost dead and see the light, I had :)
Bless you
chinesetycoon said…
quote - but isn't God being a bit egoistic to not allow those people who don't believe him to go to Heaven??

agree also, I know not all, but can say alot of christian are rude. they say people should respect other's religion, but in the meantime they say other religion who worship idol (Hindu & taoist...etc) are evil, will go to hell. ~_~ you call this respect????

any christian can answer me is this the correct teaching? only christian go to heaven, all other religion will be damn to hell? is this God's teaching or human twisted his meaning?

I also want to urged people here to tell your family member what kind of funeral you want, in case you die 2morow, there will not be quarrel
lovewarrior said…
hey hey i am a christian, and I am not going to write anything imposing here. I used to be an EXTREMELY CYNICAL NON-CHRISTIAN WITH EXACTLY THE SAME DOUBTS. It is true that those who don't believe in christianity won't go to heaven, but it's not clearly stated in the bible that you non-christians will go to hell. PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT SO PERSONALLY when christians become too insensitive. I'd like to say that there is plenty of evidence to support christianity, like healing services, where the body is suddenly unable to be controlled by the mind and is healed and everything. Sometimes, christians don't get healed because they are either meant to die or they do not have the faith. sometimes, god doesn't seem to be there to help us out of our shitty lives, because it is his way to strengthen we christians faith in him and to grow closer to him and become better people in the process.
my deepest condolences to jing wen(i'm from rv too!!). i really hope that the pastor will stop going around evangelising at funerals.
Jingwei said…
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Jingwei said…
Peacelover: Please scroll up and read my comment earlier. I have always been trying to understand on near-death situations and thus the meaning of life. Maybe you can shed some light and explain a little more of what you had experienced.
angelaa (: said…
my condolences xx.
zp said…
hi, I think that the pastor was indeed being very insensitive, and that him pushing his religion at a solemn event like this is totally unacceptable and disgusts me.

I personally have many doubts with regards to christianity on the whole but I shan't say them here. I dun really wanna comment on your issues about christainity either though I both agree and disagreee to some of them. But try take a more cautious approach towards sensitive topics like religion as you could end up offending alot of people. I am not a christian btw.

I offer my deepest condolences to jingwei and his family.
kelvin said…
hmmmm insensitive ,over enthusiastic, annoying to death, dodgy, insincere and the dire need to evangelise EVERYONE they see...





smells like a city harvest pastor to me...
sarah said…
Hey. Im a christian. Not a very good one to begin with. But yes i do agree with you on your point that there's a place and time for everything. And sharing the gospel. Your recent posts regarding your friend made me see you in a different light, and made me feel ashame of the way i've stereotyped you previously from your past entries. Toodles.
Unknown said…
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I have a friend too who killed himself when he was just 12. Now how bad is that?

I'm not a christian for your info.

But my belief is that, God always give us challenges on Earth. Which means, this is one of you and your friends' challenges. That is, to except your good friend's death. And what the pastor said is true. Which is, he will go to a better place. That's if he did good deeds on Earth. Which I bet he did. God loves us all the same. By now, you should know that I believe in heaven and hell. And that's true. I'm sorry if my comment offended anyone.

Xiaxue, just forget what has happened and yes remember his spirit. I know it's hard. As I have said, this is one of the many challenges God gave you.
tHe MeNaCe said…
I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

Anyway, I do agree with you that what the pastor did is totally unacceptable. I mean he did not even know your friend well and yet said that your friend had gone to a better place with GOD. How does he know that the place the GOD lives is a better place. As far as I'm concern, it's most properly a boring place.

Oh well, some people can be over insenstive and I have plently of friends like that. Always saying the wrong things at the wrong time. I think we can't blame them because it's their nature. Hopefully, someone will tell the pastor not to spread faith around especially at a time like this and when the deceased's family is not even Christian. Show some respect.
Ivan said…
I'm not sure about you, but I have a feeling that pastor may have inadvertently made more people turned off with Christianity.

As a Christian myself, I think it's only fair to concede that religion will be a very sensitive issue for most of us, and that we'll never stop bickering about it until the end of our species.

But anyway, to answer the person who commented as "Jingwei":

"God's creation of life vs neo-Darwinism will always be a heated debate. While atheists might question the existence of a super supreme out there, religious people will ask the atheists to prove evolution and the famous cause and effect theory. What triggered Big bang - the birth of universe? If birds were evolved from land creatures, then why can't we find fossil fuels of their intermediate lifeforms, ie "birds" with semi-evolved wings, etc. Thereby, religion serves as a medium to answer things that have not or will never be scientifically discovered/proven. (I know I'd contradicted myself but maybe someone from the church can tell me who created God?)"

Ahem, where do I begin...

i) First of all, I don't think neo-Darwinism really has anything to do with this discussion on religion. And it's more properly referred to as evolution, and has a great deal of evidence from scientific research and discovery.

ii) First of all, I accept that God started off the Big Bang, and all the other events that made the cosmos as it is today. So in this p.o.v, Science and religion can coexist.

iii) You asked,

'If birds were evolved from land creatures, then why can't we find fossil fuels of their intermediate lifeforms, ie "birds" with semi-evolved wings, etc.'

Wrong. There is numerous fossil evidence that shows that certain small meat-eating dinosaurs had a covering of feathers, and some even show wings, and prove conclusively that birds evolved from dinosaurs.

You seem to be of the opinion that evolution and religion cannot coexist, that evolution is an atheistic mindset that is anti-religion. It is not. It is merely a way of accounting for the diversity of life we see today, and can fit into the religious framework, as a mechanism God uses to create the dazzling multitude of organisms.

Anyway, I'm done ranting here. I'd like to hope that Christians and non-Christians alike try and maintain a moderate stance, and to really focus on the main thing, that Wendy here has lost a close friend. Whether or not he is in a better place, I cannot say for sure, but in any case, he will be dearly missed by friends and family.
sim said…
Things you write about are very controversial, very sensitive. Noone can say anything though, because yes it is YOUR blog. But sometimes, i personally feel it goes beyond self and such issues should be treated with more sensitivity. Knowing your blog is read by many, perhaps it is only appropriate to hold back certain feelings.
I think it is good, though, that you question. And i think you'll find the answers someday, if you don't stop searching. Maybe you'll find out why millions of people get touched by this God. And i too hope you'll understand.
David said…
I don't know if anyone has explained yet. 100+ posts are just too many to go through. So anyway...

I can say almost FOR SURE that what u witnessed was a "Protestant" funeral. Most protestants groups do not really believe in praying for the dead unlike most religions, Catholicism included. Why they don't believe in praying for the dead I don't quite know.

But whatever the case I feel that it is only right that the dead be remembered. After all it IS his funeral... There really is a better time to evangelise. Evangelise by example. If the best example they can show is that that they don't "care" for the dead, I'm afraid tehy won't begettign many converts. For MOST of human kind really do care a great deal about the dead, especially those we love.
sim said…
Frankly, you must know we christians have our faults too. We may become too passionate about evangelizing and yes, get too carried off. I am a christian, but i strongly respect people of other religion. We will share, but we do not force. I hope any stereotype is broken.
sim said…
Frankly, you must know we christians have our faults too. We may become too passionate about evangelizing and yes, get too carried off. I am a christian, but i strongly respect people of other religion. We will share, but we do not force. I hope any stereotype is broken.
huishan said…
hi . firstly , i really think that you shouldnt have say anything negative about the pastor . do try to stand in the shoes of the pastor . who knows , he might be an english educated man and thus , will naturally have some problems pronoucing chinese names .
God has a purpose for everything . if JW was really a christian , he would have thank God even he had died so tragically .
Jesus gave us emotions to feel . we are humans . so its naturally to feel sad .
JW never evangelised to you , it didnt mean that he has no intentions of doing so . maybe he was just waiting for the right time ? the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing .
hence , i feel that you should not assume that he didn't liek it .
a pastor does not step into a muslim wedding and start preaching cos nobody will believe him as it isnt the right time to do so . even if he does , the malays would not have understand . again . the right thing at the wrong time is a wrong thing . thanks .
huishan said…
hi . firstly , i really think that you shouldnt have say anything negative about the pastor . do try to stand in the shoes of the pastor . who knows , he might be an english educated man and thus , will naturally have some problems pronoucing chinese names .
God has a purpose for everything . if JW was really a christian , he would have thank God even he had died so tragically .
Jesus gave us emotions to feel . we are humans . so its naturally to feel sad .
JW never evangelised to you , it didnt mean that he has no intentions of doing so . maybe he was just waiting for the right time ? the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing .
hence , i feel that you should not assume that he didn't liek it .
a pastor does not step into a muslim wedding and start preaching cos nobody will believe him as it isnt the right time to do so . even if he does , the malays would not have understand . again . the right thing at the wrong time is a wrong thing . thanks .
huishan said…
hi . firstly , i really think that you shouldnt have say anything negative about the pastor . do try to stand in the shoes of the pastor . who knows , he might be an english educated man and thus , will naturally have some problems pronoucing chinese names .
God has a purpose for everything . if JW was really a christian , he would have thank God even he had died so tragically .
Jesus gave us emotions to feel . we are humans . so its naturally to feel sad .
JW never evangelised to you , it didnt mean that he has no intentions of doing so . maybe he was just waiting for the right time ? the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing .
hence , i feel that you should not assume that he didn't liek it .
a pastor does not step into a muslim wedding and start preaching cos nobody will believe him as it isnt the right time to do so . even if he does , the malays would not have understand . again . the right thing at the wrong time is a wrong thing . thanks .
huishan said…
hi . firstly , i really think that you shouldnt have say anything negative about the pastor . do try to stand in the shoes of the pastor . who knows , he might be an english educated man and thus , will naturally have some problems pronoucing chinese names .
God has a purpose for everything . if JW was really a christian , he would have thank God even he had died so tragically .
Jesus gave us emotions to feel . we are humans . so its naturally to feel sad .
JW never evangelised to you , it didnt mean that he has no intentions of doing so . maybe he was just waiting for the right time ? the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing .
hence , i feel that you should not assume that he didn't liek it .
a pastor does not step into a muslim wedding and start preaching cos nobody will believe him as it isnt the right time to do so . even if he does , the malays would not have understand . again . the right thing at the wrong time is a wrong thing . thanks .
huishan said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
huishan said…
hi . firstly , i really think that you shouldnt have say anything negative about the pastor . do try to stand in the shoes of the pastor . who knows , he might be an english educated man and thus , will naturally have some problems pronoucing chinese names .
God has a purpose for everything . if JW was really a christian , he would have thank God even he had died so tragically .
Jesus gave us emotions to feel . we are humans . so its naturally to feel sad .
JW never evangelised to you , it didnt mean that he has no intentions of doing so . maybe he was just waiting for the right time ? the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing .
hence , i feel that you should not assume that he didn't liek it .
a pastor does not step into a muslim wedding and start preaching cos nobody will believe him as it isnt the right time to do so . even if he does , the malays would not have understand . again . the right thing at the wrong time is a wrong thing . thanks .
huishan said…
hi . firstly , i really think that you shouldnt have say anything negative about the pastor . do try to stand in the shoes of the pastor . who knows , he might be an english educated man and thus , will naturally have some problems pronoucing chinese names .
God has a purpose for everything . if JW was really a christian , he would have thank God even he had died so tragically .
Jesus gave us emotions to feel . we are humans . so its naturally to feel sad .
JW never evangelised to you , it didnt mean that he has no intentions of doing so . maybe he was just waiting for the right time ? the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing .
hence , i feel that you should not assume that he didn't liek it .
a pastor does not step into a muslim wedding and start preaching cos nobody will believe him as it isnt the right time to do so . even if he does , the malays would not have understand . again . the right thing at the wrong time is a wrong thing . thanks .
huishan said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
xenium04 said…
I registered a blogger account to post my few thoughts here. Several points to make and I shall not beat around the bush.

1) I'm a free-thinker, I do not believe in whether there's a 'someone' up there, God Jesus or Buddha or what-so-who-ever. However I respect all religions and I've even been to churches and temples, and seen believers worship their gods. I've seen healing seminars and seen people actually do get well after some praying (I do not know what exactly these are but I'm sure people out there knows). I don't believe in all these but if they are doing some good, then fine with me. I strongly think that if you believe, and it's doing wonders to you (being able to forgive your sins, going to heaven, having a fulfilling life, living happily), all the better. We all want a better world to live in. Bless you (Note: I don't believe in God Bless, either you bless that person out of goodwill or you don't. Don't use another person's name.)

2) If you are a believer, the world is good for you, so will your afterlife be. If you are not, the world is as good for you as well as your afterlife. The world can only be a better place if everyone treats everyone equally, Christians or not, or whether A is going to hell or B is going to heaven. No point arguing over all these, it'll only create more conflicts which is contary to what believers want - Peace. Leave people alone, if you have to, do your preaching in an appropriate to a receptive group of people, don't just do it anywhere and everywhere just for the sake of hoping some of these people will eventually convert. I believe in personal choices.

3) If you are a believer, let me ask you this: Do you really know what is your purpose in believing in your God? Clean your sins? So that you can go to heaven? To pray for non-believers so that they can be saved from hell? Think about it, look deep into yourself and ask yourself why you believe in it, whether it's religion or anything at all. I don't believe in God, neither do I discount his presence for the believers out there.

4) Don't stereotype us non-Christians, and don't make a stereotype out of yourself.

5) This is a personal blog, the blogger's opinions are her own. No one has any right to deny the owner his/her opinions, or have the capacity to say what he/she did is wrong, for who are you to judge? Because you are a 'true' believer? Does that gives you this 'power'? No offence, just trying to illustrate my point. Please post constructively, and do not flame.

6) Xiaxue may not be totally right in all aspects in this post, or other previous posts. But are you? I do think some of her points are rather too extreme, but hey, that's her own opinions and her own emotions, surely we can have some freedom of expression? As I said, this is her own personal blog space, in this Internet age, you read about all kinds of opinions, fair or unfair everywhere, take them with a pinch of salt.

7) Lastly, my condolences to Jingwei and family. It's sad to see someone close to you leave this world, for I have experienced it as well. What we should learn from this is not whether to believe in God or not ride a motorbike, but to treasure the people around you, don't take them for granted, and love them always.

Regards,
xenium04
Longer Short said…
I personally feel this entry is good, as it prompts discussion and is able to bring to light the alternative perspectives towards certain issues in life. That it prompted anger? I feel enger is a personal choice and anyone with a heart big enough (and mind deep enough) would understand that everyone is different and thus holds differing opinions too.
Life is full of grey areas, and when one make a stand or an opinion on a grey issue, one should do it with the recognition that the grey area still exists. Unless one is omniscient and have the necessary knowledge and depth of wisdom to be absolutely correct, then i suggest one be open to new ideas (don't mean that you have to believe in the new ideas) and not be a bigot.

In any case, the priest should have been professional in his conduct. You have to know who and what you're talking to/about, be it for presentations, job interviews, speeches. Thus forgetting the name is a major no-no.
And the implied(or actually stated) meaning that the rest should convert otherwise not go to heaven could be omitted, for sensitivity and respect's sake. It is a personal moment for those in grief after all.
Jun Ng said…
Just to let you know Wendy.

I am a christian, but I don't get too uptight in evangelising. Yes, i tell people about Jesus. But then I don't bother them anymore. I do not diss people from other faiths but accept them for who they are. Hey, I have many Muslim friends. We talk about our faiths, but don't wish to convert the other.

As a blogger, I don't write about religious stuff (though I would type in sermons that touched my heart at times), instead I will write about my family and my ex-bfs. I do not want to cause a controversy with religious posts. I feel that there is no point in wasting my energy on these issues.

Hope that I make sense.

My condolences to Jing Wei and family. I was in a biking ( I was knocked down in Orchard Road) once and i almost died. So I know how it feels.

Tata
Jun Ng said…
Just to let you know Wendy.

I am a christian, but I don't get too uptight in evangelising. Yes, i tell people about Jesus. But then I don't bother them anymore. I do not diss people from other faiths but accept them for who they are. Hey, I have many Muslim friends. We talk about our faiths, but don't wish to convert the other.

As a blogger, I don't write about religious stuff (though I would type in sermons that touched my heart at times), instead I will write about my family and my ex-bfs. I do not want to cause a controversy with religious posts. I feel that there is no point in wasting my energy on these issues.

Hope that I make sense.

My condolences to Jing Wei and family. I was in a biking ( I was knocked down in Orchard Road) once and i almost died. So I know how it feels.

Tata
rEgU|aR said…
ok... first commment, i'll like to say something which xiaxue has pointed out..

1) Firstly, i strongly disagree on one point which christians said, "Only christians go to heaven"...

One incident was my pri.2 sis came back home from sch one day, and told my family this.. "My friend told me tt only christians go to heaven... mum.. are we going to hell?"

This is SO fucking wrong -.-... why do ONLY christians go to heaven?

Another incident was from my brother.. he's studying in a christian JC ( though he's not a christian ).. and his lecturer ( mind u.. it's a lecturer wif a high lvl of education lvl ) said too his class that other religion's god are devils except for christians'....

i mean.. WTF lohz... if u want to spread ur religion.. can't u do it in a better way? do u have to go condemning other religion's god because of this?

And oh, i went to a church once.. ( just to... see how's it like.. ).. and during the service, they did perform ( healing session ) where the person, whom apparantly couldn't walk at first, was wheelchair-bounded could actually stand up and walk after the whole service... then tell me why pastors still take medication when they supreme god can just heal them.. ( xiaxue's example :> )

tt's just my 2 cents... shrug =/=

and oh.. xiaxua.. dun be so sad ya?
shahidah said…
xx, i hope you feel better soon.

i'm muslim and i find that i question religion sometimes as well, especially at times of sadness, grief, etc. in that itself i know is wrong in my religion. but there is still so much to learn in my religion, so i'm just taking this as a lifetime learning experience.

the actions of said pastor were wrong, but i do think that your reaction is a little exaggerated, aggravated by the fact that the deceased was your close friend. i don't blame you for this or for anyone who has had the misfortune to have that experience. everyone makes mistakes, religious or not, we shouldn't get angry and more ruffled by these minor things. the big picture is that you should probably help yourself and your friends/his family to go through this period of grief as 'healthily' as possible. then the best outcome would just be the memories of a great friend. not bitter arguments and hateful talk about religion or whatsoever.

personally, i believe that there is only one God, no matter what religion one belongs to. i think what religions are actually 'fighting' about, is, essentially, the way one worships God. and because every one has a free will, everyone has the right to choose their own religious path. God is, for me, everything. He knows every sin and every act of goodwill we do or say or think. i have gone through much suffering in my life, according to my standards, but that is not His standards. He is not human and can never possibly be compared to anything human-related type of thinking or acting. i think we should question ourselves instead. i mean, we all have free will, we need to make the right choices to live our lives as best as possible.

sorry if i've strayed. i just meant to say that it doesn't matter what religion you are in (or not in), humans are humans and God is something else. don't blame Him for your friend's way of passing. you should concentrate on going through this time of mourning as best as possible. do take care. <3
Ben said…
xx,
i'm a christian here.
but i agree alot with you.
even my mom agrees.

i cant believe that the pastor said "I would like to take this opportunity". its totally wrong.

i do not support the idea of evangelising during funerals.
like you said, its totally wrong and inappropriate.
people are grieving and you are preaching that you must "convert" to go heaven. in my term, Who The Hell Cares. I am feeling sad for a friend/family here, and here you are going on about something that i have no interest in.

i believe that pastors should ONLY say a FEW words of faith & religion. just a FEW. not an entire speech.

however,
i "think" that the deceased(if he is interested/believes in christianity) would like his family/friends to be with him in heaven(i would like to state that i stand on neutral ground regarding "only christians go to heaven"), thats why the pastor would "preach" during the funeral. lets assume that we are in heaven, we would like to see our friends/family with us.
lets look at this from the chinese view.
if you keep doing bad things,
you go to hell and reincarnate as an animal or sort.
if you do good or sorts,
you reincarnate as a human again or become a shen xian.
in christian terms,
reincarnation as a human again=going to heaven.
oh well.......

i agree much with Shahidah:
"the actions of said pastor were wrong, but i do think that your reaction is a little exaggerated, aggravated by the fact that the deceased was your close friend. i don't blame you for this or for anyone who has had the misfortune to have that experience. everyone makes mistakes, religious or not, we shouldn't get angry and more ruffled by these minor things. the big picture is that you should probably help yourself and your friends/his family to go through this period of grief as 'healthily' as possible. then the best outcome would just be the memories of a great friend. not bitter arguments and hateful talk about religion or whatsoever.personally, i believe that there is only one God, no matter what religion one belongs to. i think what religions are actually 'fighting' about, is, essentially, the way one worships God. and because every one has a free will, everyone has the right to choose their own religious path. God is, for me, everything. He knows every sin and every act of goodwill we do or say or think. i have gone through much suffering in my life, according to my standards, but that is not His standards. He is not human and can never possibly be compared to anything human-related type of thinking or acting. i think we should question ourselves instead. i mean, we all have free will, we need to make the right choices to live our lives as best as possible.
"
So true.
but i hope to clarify that not all christians/pastors are like that.
i also hope that this would not turn out to be an opportunity to "shoot-the-christians".
hope that non-christian readers here would understand.
thanks.
well its religion afterall... itz belief but personally i would not side cause im a freethinker
Ben said…
just to clarify some things..

"...they say other religion who worship idol (Hindu & taoist...etc) are evil, will go to hell" -chinesetycoon
chinesetycoon, please do not stereotype christians as being rude. we do not go round telling people that taoism/hinduism/buddhism/whatever other religions, are evil. God never said other religions are damned to hell in the Bible.
maybe you are right.
humans twisted a LITTLE of His meaning.


"there are a few black sheeps in everything"-cuteworm
cuteworm, your comment is only accurate to a small extent. not black sheeps, maybe just over-doing. black sheeps are those that are overly insensitive. like the one who told your neighbour about joss sticks-totally inappropriate.



To all: please do not stereotype Christians. Religion is a sensitive issue around the world.
"religion is not something that should be thrown into public debate if possible" -razzledazzled

we are all human.nobody is perfect.mistakes/feelings/actions are all part and parcel of our lives.
please take note of this:
that as Christians we do not convert anyone, but merely introduce to them to the Lord by spreading the gospel, and let God work inside the people we bring to Him. The decision to convert or not lies entirely on the individual...


just in case some people lazy to read from the top, this is something written by xx's reader regarding xx's questions:

<
2) "So ... Does this Jesus guy expect us to feel upset, or not??? (If you don't get the contradiction, I am not going to bother explaining)"

There's a story in John 11 (in the Bible) about how Jesus' good friend Lazarus died. When Jesus went to Lazarus' tomb, "Jesus wept". I guess that as Christians, we grieve when our loved ones pass away, but we still take comfort in the fact that we'll see them in heaven - so the separation is not absolute and eternal.

3) "If it is true that dying means God wants to take us to him, then how come pastors take medication when they have terminal cancer? Just go la."

Paul the apostle talks about this in Philippians (one book in the Bible; this particular book was written by Paul). Quoting the first chapter of Philippians, from verse 19 until 26:


Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labour for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me."

In other words, Paul deeply wanted to just go to heaven and be with Christ straightaway, but he knew that he was on earth for the purpose of serving the people and bringing more people to Christ.
>



nuff said.
enough of defending/shooting christianity and such.
wrong occasion.
wrong time.
wrong topic.


condolences to JW's family and friends. understand how you feel. cause i too lost a friend recently.
Jingwei said…
Hai~Ren:

"First of all, I don't think neo-Darwinism really has anything to do with this discussion on religion."

I commented on evolution based on the assumption that Wendy supports it (since she does not believe in God). Of course I may be wrong.

"You seem to be of the opinion that evolution and religion cannot coexist, that evolution is an atheistic mindset that is anti-religion. It is not. It is merely a way of accounting for the diversity of life we see today, and can fit into the religious framework, as a mechanism God uses to create the dazzling multitude of organisms."

Atheists would have to accept the evolution theory as they do not believe in God and His creation of universe and thereafter, His lifeforms. On the other hand, I agree that theists and deist can treat evolution as part of His creation. I hope this clears up on the misconceptions of my earlier stated point.

"There is numerous fossil evidence that shows that certain small meat-eating dinosaurs had a covering of feathers, and some even show wings, and prove conclusively that birds evolved from dinosaurs."

Fossil fuels of dinosaurs with feathers or wings are not sufficed to support the theory of evolution. I was referring to missing links of transitional animals. In nature today, we only find UNFILLED gaps of all species - missing fossils of transitional half fish-half bird, half ape-half man, or even dinosaurs with half-developed feathers (ie, feathers found only in some parts of their bodies).

---
As much as I believe there is a supreme body out there who created this World, I still have doubts over the credibility of the Bible. (Note: I'm not here to make enemies with Christians and my argument is backed up with scientific reasoning)

The Bible records the age of the world as being very close to 4000 years old when Jesus was born in this world and by adding the almost 2000 years since the birth of Jesus, the earth is now very close to 6000 years old. On the contrary, we have been taught during Physics radioactivity lessons that carbon-decays took place millions of years ago. Thus, it has been scientifically been proven that the timeline given by the Bible is incorrect.

Bottomline: I’m a deist. I believe that a supreme being must have created the universe. But evolution and Christianity are still yet to be proven correct.
devilinme said…
i don't have any friend who died ... thank ...err God?
so i don't really know how to console u.
the closest i have of somebody who died and affected me is the death of my friend's
father. i didn't even know the guy but i know my friend for quite a long time.
when i heard the news, i'm also at a lost for words.
the only thing i can think of to myself is
sheng1 shi2 wu2 kui4,
si3 shi2 wu2 hui3
(live with a clear conscience
and die without regret)

And err... by asking those questions, i feel u are bordering too close to being a xtian yourself! u want to take care not to delve in any deeper. careful girl.

1. better or not, is always in relative terms. if u don't know pain and suffering, how would u know happiness? so if heaven has no pain, how will we know what happiness is? i think this is why Pandora open the box.
and by the way, if being dead is to go back to god, why is everyone crying when someone died? because they have been left behind? hey now i think why so many cried when the pope died.

2. it is said that god create us in his image, and therefore logically speaking, god has flaws too because human aren't perfect and since human is a replica of god... u get me?

3. god want u to take medicine because of a flaw in his theory.
u see, in the beginning, god say "if u stay with me u will be forever happy"
and then someone said, "in that case, can i commit suicide and die early so that i can be with u faster?"
it is at this point that god realise his mistake
"eeks. what am i thinking" (god thinking to himself) and then god said,
"u cannot commit suicide because it would be a crime in itself"
brilliant answer right?
actually, buddhist also uses the same reasoning to warn people not to commit suicide.

4. nah, living has no meaning. maybe the only meaning in life is to find the meaning for living.

5. i think if there is a god, we are merely his toy to have fun with. how's that?

And to "yy"
Nobody died in the tsunami in Bintan. Go read the newspaper.

Finally, cheer up girl. The living still have to get on with life.

PS: I have no religion but pls respect that as well.
yy said…
aye. my mistake. but i think basically u get the idea right?
grace said…
This seems to have turned into a discussion of the validity of christianity :/

Everyone seems to be talking about things they don't fully understand, like basic tenets of the various religions, and they totally screw the meanings and interpretations up and that in itself is offensive.

I'm a christian, yes, and I'm pissed off because people are making unfounded assumptions about my religion, the Bible, and God.

But why bother arguing about this anyway? There'll always be a new counter-argument to bring up, something like this is never going to end -

Because ultimately it's all about whether you choose to believe or not; it's all about intangible faith which no amount of factual reasoning or battling out here will ever be able to sway.

Anyway. I suggest everyone chill or something :I
dun tell u said…
to those who ask why are people suffering if theres a god, i feel that most are caused by human causes.. and humans do have a choice dun they? doesnt matter whether theres a god anot.. natural disasters wise.. guess its just unlucky.. no answer to that. ( not a christian by the way, free thinker only..)

hope u get over this soon.. for people will leave this world sooner or later.. dun let this get u down for too long, instead try and cherish those around u..

i myself have witnessed 2 family members pass away.. my brother and my father, and also 1 primary school classmate during my secondary school days ( genetic blood disorder, stroke, and blood cancer respectively)... but life still goes on.. wouldnt it be better to just keep them in ur memories while they were around and u were happy then? rather than only remember the times they left us?

since u dun believe in god, then dun keep thinking about it, trying to prove its existence or non-existence, doesnt achieve anything

lastly, my deepest condolences...
Gesline said…
Hi xiaxue,

My deepest condolences...

I agree with you on most of your points. I'm not trying to say that I dun believe in Christianity. I personally believe that there is a higher being up there. Yeah, we diversify ourselves through the various religions. But ultimately, we could all be probably praying to a same god differently.

I am totally disgusted when some christians tell me that GOD loves everyone but yet will not salvage those who doesnt believe in him?? Wat kinda logic is that?? In fact, I've seen people who are more christians than some who attend regular services and claim that they are true christian. Please do not get me wrong. I am not against christianity but the way some evagelise.
Lin Hui said…
My deepest condolences to you, family and friends of JW..

I can understand how you feel.. I too lost a friend (my sec sch mate) to a bike accident two years back.. He just left us LIKE THAT.. This year, I have another friend fighting for his life.. against brain infection..

p/s: I am not a Christian myself.. But I teach in a Christian school where kids will pray and say: "May god bless you!"

MGBY?! How true is that? Is HE always there to bless us? Hmmmm.. well.. He will be VERY busy.. But
after all that has happened these few years, I still wanna believe in this :

May God Bless You..

Once again, my deepest condolences

@->-- RIP
Hey...a non-believer here. thot that preaching should be done during services??? then why the freaking hell is he doing it during a funeral??? i was a christian but backslided because of some issues. and sometimes i wonder if they jus need more members to become the world's largest religion. if someone really believes in HIM, there is no freaking need to knock on non-believers' door or people of other religion to convert.

so back to the entry. the pastor did a really bad job. is he some kinda boogey pastor???

and i totally agree that motorcycles are really dangerous vehicles. even car crashes causes deaths, what about bikes??? shoulda ban them. my uncle was injured while riding a bike when he was young too.

my grand uncle was paralysed from waist down cuz of a bike accident too. he's dead already. don't think you'd remember, but he was the one that died at home and his body rotted at home. my grand aunt is a little retarded and doesn't know what to do.


lastly, don grief xiaxue. JW is not dead but living in your heart.


...:g.e.n.e.v.i.e.v.e:...
stefalicious said…
You know, the fact that you have probed so deeply into the Christian faith (questioning their said beliefs and practices)suggests an underlying desire to acquire a deeper understanding of the word of Christ.

Remember: Wisdom is proven right by her actions.
the end said…
Hey ya ! I understand how u feel abt ur ex classmate's demise. If I were to tell u my very own fiance died b4 my very eyes, do u believe it ? Yes, it is nothign but the truth. Read my Dec -Jan 2005 blog entries and u will know how I felt. I felt a million times worse than u. He died of leukaemia and it was horrible. I wished I can take his place. Then I wouldn't feel terrible living alone here now. I doubt u can understand how I feel. He used to share a lifetime with me and now, all our dreams were shattered.....

Anyway, dun think the young will not die young. Anything can happen, be it an tragic accident or terminal disease. Just enjoy life while u can !
the end said…
Though this post is non-related to ur topic here, just wanna tell ya that I cried after reading the many comments u have here in this entry.

Especially on the many thoughts about the afterlife and the BMT (Bone Marrow Transplant) thingy. I dun ever trust any BMT anymore. It was becoz my then leukaemia-stricken fiance passed away tragically after the BMT, with 27 miserable, tubes-infested days in the ICU b4 he passed on.

The pain is too hard for me to bear and I still remember that sad espiode now. It is still in my mind, as clear as then. Sigh...
ELFeN said…
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Agagooga said…
You should just make an open thread or forum for people to make comments about religion :x
Xiaxue said…
Agagooga: Nothing to say this time? Though i think I already know your opinion. =)
Ivan said…
jingwei:

First, I'd like to clarify a few things. Dinosaur fossils are NOT fossil fuels. Fossil fuels refer strictly to things like oil, coal, and natural gas, where the remains of organic matter have become pressurised and over time transformed into these substances. When we are talking about recognisable remains of animals and plants (e.g. a fish skeleton or leaf etc etc), we use fossils. So please, do stop using the erroneous term "fossil fuel" when talking about evolution.

And what is your definition of "evolution"? Do you restrict it to things such as fish evolving into land animals, apes evolving into humans? Because evolution simply means "change in a species over time". We as a species have evolved as well; we're taller than our great-grandparents were, more Asians are lactose-intolerant compared to Caucasians, because for most of our history, we didn't raise cattle for milk. This too counts as evolution. So does bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics, or cockroaches and mosquitoes becoming resistant to insecticide. All these also count as examples of evolution.

You mention:

"Fossil fuels of dinosaurs with feathers or wings are not sufficed to support the theory of evolution. I was referring to missing links of transitional animals. In nature today, we only find UNFILLED gaps of all species - missing fossils of transitional half fish-half bird, half ape-half man, or even dinosaurs with half-developed feathers (ie, feathers found only in some parts of their bodies)."

Actually, the fossil record is FULL of these links - we have wonderful fossils that illustrate how the fins of certain fish, over generations, changed and slowly developed into limbs strong enough to carry the creature out of water.

Even the example I used, of feathered dinosaurs, is a perfect example of a missing link. We're not talking about 1 or 2 species of feathered dinosaur; at present there are up to a dozen different kinds of dinosaur discovered with the imprint of feathers. And not all of them were fully feathered; it can be seen that some of them only had a fine fuzzy covering along their back, others are obviously dinosaurian, yet display exactly the same set of feathers as a mdoern bird does. Then there are other fossils that blur the line between bird and dinosaur, since some of them look exactly like birds, except that they still retain the teeth, long bony tails, and fingers of their dinosaurian ancestors.

The fossil record is incomplete, yes, yet we are discovering enough fossils to postulate and hypothesise the transition and change between different forms.

You mentioned:

"transitional half fish-half bird"

Although scientists in the 17th and 18th Century theorised that birds evolved directly from fish, current research and evidence shows that the birds remain firmly placed as the only surviving lineage of the great dinosaur dynasty.

"half ape-half man"

If you actually search the Net, you will realise that although hominid fossils are scarce, they are common enough to give conclusive evidence of an ape-man link. We have fossils that show creatures that were in all respects almost identical to other ape fossils, except that these walked upright. Then we slowly detect changes, such as the use of stone tools, increase in meat-eating, larger brain size, evidence of use of fire etc etc.

I believe that I have seriously strayed very far off-topic already, but here are a few links that will show you why the Creationist argument that there are no transitional fossils is not only a false interpretation, it is a blatant lie. There are numerous fossil remains that show transitional change, among them from fish to tetrapod, dinosaur to bird, and among the mammals, horse, elephant, whale and ape/human fossils all show how various species have changed over the eons to become the species we know today.

The following links will be extremely informative:

http://talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

If you'd like to debate this further, come to my blog at http://chasmosaurine.blogspot.com/, and I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Foor now, I believe that we have strayed a bit far off point, when what truly matters is that we ought to be here helping Wendy get over her bereavement.
Unknown said…
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Unknown said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Unknown said…
Hey Xia Xue,
Sorry about your friend. Such a tragic death can never have an "explanation" that we can understand. Agree with the 1st part of your post, Pastor sounds like it was his first day on the job... and unfortunately it probably wasn't.

In regards to the second part of the post... sounds like you've got lots of things to say TO GOD (in whatever form you imagine him). And deffinitely these comments you make are not towards christians or pastors or bible scholars but are directed at GOD. (and your christian friend is right, all of them put together will never have enough wisdom to anwer these questions.) I do however would like to point out that even though you say you love Douglas Adams who apparently suggests that even GOD himself doesn't have his "story" straight... it still sounds like YOU are VERY interested in getting some answers. I don't know you personally, but such strong statements (even though negative) can only come from someone who is very curious and has her very specific reasons to be.
I suggest not to leave these questions hanging and do pose them to scholars/pastors/whoever... and see what they say, maybe GOD in the process will find a way to "send" the answer to you. EVEN more practical... why dont you write to that pastor and ask him why he was so rude!!!??? email him your post! I myself would love to hear what he has to say for himself!!!
lady queer said…
I love and hate your blog. but now, I JUST LOVE THIS ENTRY DAMN IT! WOOOHOO! WELL SAID!
Daniel said…
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Daniel said…
Hai~Ren: Now that's elucidating. Nice to have someone who's learned in the subject to dispel the clouds of confusion.

To add on, I remember reading not too long ago in The Straits Times about the discovery of humanoids in a remote island of Indonesia. They are diminutive in size, have a large cranium, and resemble a cross between apes and humans.

truly fascinating.
Ivan said…
daniel: Thanks. Anyone who's curious and who is willing to read a lot can become at least something of an expert in virtually any field he wants.

As for those humanoids discovered, it was the discovery of a pygmy hominid species on the island of Flores. The remains were adult, yet these people would have only been about a metre tall - true pygmies. Living on an island had made them shrink in size, from the human-sized Homo erectus that once inhabited these lands before modern humans came here, until they were so tiny. When their existence was made public, the press gave them the nickname of 'hobbit' (although they bear no relation to Frodo and co.)Their brains were even tinier than that of chimpanzees! Yet they show signs of having retained the intelligence to make stone tools, perfect for huting pony-sized pygmy elephants, giant rats, as well as dealing with komodo dragons. Ah yes, the pressures of living on a small island with limited resources; proves that even hominids are not exempt from the forces that drive evolution.

Other evidence seems to indicate that these hominids, which are now a new species known as Homo floresiensis, may have survived up to 12, 000 years ago, meaning that they may have encountered modern humans that spread through southeast Asia and down to Australia thousands of years ago.

But seriously, this is very OT already.
Veronica said…
Well, personally, why you have posted such things is not a coincidence, to me. cos nothing happens by coincidence.

you are expressing a "feeling". there is nothing wrong with how a normal human being feels. Why the pastor did what he did, you do not know the real reason behind. and by asking everyone and anyone but the pastor himself, won't get you the answer you are not interested in.

your friend has gone. he will leave behind memories. Would you want to rememeber JW as "my friend whose funeral was ruined by an insensitive pastor" or like what you said,"...one thing is sure about Jing wei: He was never mediocre or forgettable."

i hope when you have cooled down, think about where is JW now.

we don't have to go to Hell to find out that there is one.
Hi, im sorry for ur lost. It's always hard when a person goes, esp someone young.

But frm ur post, it's uncannily similar to another incident someone else related to me. It was a funeral for a baby. N the bloody pastor kept tryin to evangelise. Many were offended by this as well. May i noe what church it was at? or the guy's name? Was it Peter Teo?
marc's the name said…
Hi, I never thought I will post a comment, but I felt like I wanted to clarify somethings that I read here. I’m Christian and it is not my intent to evangelize or put down anyone. Just thought of putting things in perspective. Those who are on their toes to defend your idol xiaxue, fret not. I know this is her blog and she has her right to say all she wants. So do I, and this is the reason she instituted a comments page in the first place.

Firstly, it is indeed sad that when death lurks. I understand the rage of emotions in xiaxue. However, I maintain that that does not mean I condone what she says or I worship her.

Firstly, I don’t deny that there are Christians who are tactless and distasteful though they meant well. I wish to apologize on their behalf to those who have been irritated, offended, or had a bad experience prior to this incident. However, one should never judge a book by its cover. So it will only be polite to not put down God by judging Christians.

Next, to all who tagged the pastor as rude for 1. Not remembering the deceased name and 2. Evengelising during the funeral, yet on the same time scream profanity and vulgarities at him, come on, quit criticizing. Who’s rude now?

1. Stop attacking the poor pastor for attempting to remember jingwei’s name by referring to the paper. Only those who have never forgotten anyone’s name at all have the right to comment. Now, stop attacking the pastor just because he’s a pastor. Why don’t I hear people talking about monks not bothering to remember names of deceased? To my knowledge, monks just chant without even mentioning the name of the deceased. If not, they too, will require the family members to write the name of the deceased on a piece of paper.
Now, tell me, how many monks actually know the deceased personally? I’m not criticizing the monk for that, so what’s wrong with the pastor not knowing jingwei personally? Now who’s not ‘respecting all religion’? Please stop the jejune fuss.

2. Chanting and loud funeral music for funeral rites of other religions also seriously infringe the rights of others. In those chants, the goodness and the way of Buddha or other Gods are recited. These are often loud enough to disturb neighboring flats, let alone the trumpets and gongs. Now, if we’re all tolerant towards them, why can’t we be tolerant towards a mere preaching and alter call at a service? I’ll plead for maturity here.

Third, I will want to urge fellow Christians to stop tarnishing the name of God by giving your two cents worth of biblically unsound opinions. This might make things worse and give people the wrong idea of God. Something that is already so prevalent.

To attempt to clarify some doubts, God DOES NOT take life from people. The tsunami wasn’t His idea, neither was 911, neither was jingwei’s death.

God is a life giver. He merely allowed it to happen. Why? E.W.Kenyon puts it this way. Simply, when God created Adam and Eve, He gave them the legal right to rule over all the earth. However, due to the fall of mankind when both were deceived by the devil, SATAN, Man gave the legal right to Satan. Hence, God has to honor this folly transaction by man as He’s a God of free will and a gentleman. God can always stop Satan from creating pain and death in the world. BUT, God didn’t, for if He did, he will be an imperfect God as He doesn’t honor this transaction. This makes God unjust. Being such a gentleman, he plays fair even to Satan. Hence Satan is the Prince of the Earth and He sends disaster.

However, God didn’t just sit there and watch. Hence, He gave up Jesus to die on our behalf. This is redemption of sin. This smart idea, though painful, counters the Devil Satan. For now, if anyone who accepts this forgiveness will be spared from eternally death.

To answer particularly ‘I got stuffed’:
1. Everything in the bible is NOT by word of mouth. The authors were inspired by God and wrote them down. You might say, ‘oh, no matter what, it’s written by man and there’ll be contradictions.’ Now, an anti-Christ once wanted to prove the bible had contradictions. He was such an extremist, a professional who is educated; he devoted his life to studying the bible to prove his point. He found no contradictions at all in the entire bible. He became a Christian eventually. No contradictions only go to show its authenticity. Also, to date, most of the bible predictions have come to past.

And if you claim you don’t believe in by word of mouth because it’s susceptible to exaggeration, you’ve just proven otherwise through your wholesome faith in xiaxue’s ‘doctrines’.

2. God is not egoistic as to not allow non-believers to not go to heaven, as you claim. Think about this analogy. You’re convicted of murder and you are caught. No matter how much good things you’ve done in your life, it doesn’t nullify your crime. Imagine you’re going to face a death sentence and this court allows scapegoats. Good deal ya? But you’ve got to choose to accept the scapegoat. If not, you’ll still be sentenced to death. Also, this scapegoat has to be a good citizen. Because, if this scapegoat is a murderer himself, he deserves to be sentenced himself, so he’s no scapegoat.
Similarly, replace the scapegoat with Jesus and murder with your sins. If you’ve sin, you’ve to be convicted. It doesn’t matter if you’ve helped the old lady cross the road or donated money to NKF. And Jesus has already laid down His life to be your scapegoat. IF you choose not to receive his redemption, then He honors your choice. This doesn’t make God egoistic.

Hope I clarified some doubts. In view of this, as much as I respect individual rights, I plead for this to be mutual. Stop pointing fingers at others and give your two cents worth of thought peppered with vulgarities.

Get mature, reflect, before we speak. Let the deceased go in peace.
ergerge said…
No disrespect to Mr Jingwei but this is for you Ms Wendy. Poor xiaxue, frightened by the thought of death. No one I repeat no matter how intelligent you are (be it 269 at PSLE or 7 points at O levels) can escape the hands of death. Continue your arrogance and you will die lonely...
ergerge said…
I agree with what SON said. Bad things happen blame God. The world is in a bad shape and you ask God why? Why not go ask the baddies instead? I think the world will die of it's arrogance even before God can intervene.
Ivan said…
Prawnblood, I feel that the remarks you made were uncalled for and rather inflammatory. I do not care about anything you hold against Wendy, but frankly, to use this as an opportunity to slime her speaks volumes about you. Can you at least grant her some peace instead of attacking her for no particular reason?

Sheesh. Exploiting her friend's death as a platform for you to flame her. No wonder the world's such a fucked-up place.
sadfszdfasdf said…
I find the irony between this entry and the one on March 26th 2005 (about the shoe-retrieving man who got hit by a train) rather difficult to avoid.
Sweet_Mocca said…
The bottomline is: Do the right thing at the right moment!
Anonymous said…
I express my condolence to your loss. Although i am a Christian, i will not preach or anything.Some Christian are just more direct and jump straight into evangelism without analysising whether a person is suitable to accept what is going to be preached to him. Some things need to be understood overtime when given into deep and thorough thinking. It's definately not an overnight things.

Meanwhile go for a break or holiday to destress. COngratulation for quitting your old job and getting new one.Stay happy and all the best
Anonymous said…
I express my condolence to your loss. Although i am a Christian, i will not preach or anything.Some Christian are just more direct and jump straight into evangelism without analysising whether a person is suitable to accept what is going to be preached to him. Some things need to be understood overtime when given into deep and thorough thinking. It's definately not an overnight things.

Meanwhile go for a break or holiday to destress. COngratulation for quitting your old job and getting new one.Stay happy and all the best
The Princess is here to tell you that you are straying away from the POINT people! The boy was too young to die. There is a time and place for everything too. The funeral has too many anguished people still raw from greiving a loss to listen or receive anything. Let's be sensitive to Xiaxue, JW and each other--or else we HELP prove the point that people can be truly insentive and when hiding behind the safety of their cheap monitors they spew hatred--don't be that person.
Fei said…
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Fei said…
Hello,
Really sorry about your friend.. Hope his family will pull through~

Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword"

I guess Jesus did not came to give us peace, no wars no disasters and and such but he has gave us a sword. For those who align ourselves to him, usually we conquer the worldy ways. No doubt at times we'll stumble and fall =)

As for the part when pastor said that he would be with the father and such, its because christians believe that there are 2 kinds of death. 1 - Physical. 2- Spiritual. So u should have heard how Jesus conquered the grave many times haha~ U can read about the resurrection in the bible new testament.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

So when a Christian dies, human will see it as death, die forever but actually we go to heaven and live in a place where there is no struggle (unlike earth). So its kinda of wonderland we all look forward to yea? No doubt parents will be sad of course, but when they "die" they'll go to heaven too! =)

Maybe that is why the pastor sense such an urgency for everyone to come to christ so that we all may breakthrough the physical death =)
But i do understand sometimes its hard to take esp during a furneral..

And of course what your friend said is true, we as human cannot fully understand God's thinking and plans. For if we do, I think we could be gods of our own lol!

Psalm 94:10
Does he who disciplines nations not punish? Does he who teaches man lack knowledge?

Guess its the ability to trust!

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

Just a piece of thought =) no offence okie? just tried my best to answer. =)
Fei said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fei said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fei said…
Hello,
Really sorry about your friend.. Hope his family will pull through~

Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword"

I guess Jesus did not came to give us peace, no wars no disasters and and such but he has gave us a sword. For those who align ourselves to him, usually we conquer the worldy ways. No doubt at times we'll stumble and fall =)

As for the part when pastor said that he would be with the father and such, its because christians believe that there are 2 kinds of death. 1 - Physical. 2- Spiritual. So u should have heard how Jesus conquered the grave many times haha~ U can read about the resurrection in the bible new testament.

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

So when a Christian dies, human will see it as death, die forever but actually we go to heaven and live in a place where there is no struggle (unlike earth). So its kinda of wonderland we all look forward to yea? No doubt parents will be sad of course, but when they "die" they'll go to heaven too! =)

Maybe that is why the pastor sense such an urgency for everyone to come to christ so that we all may breakthrough the physical death =)
But i do understand sometimes its hard to take esp during a furneral..

And of course what your friend said is true, we as human cannot fully understand God's thinking and plans. For if we do, I think we could be gods of our own lol!

Psalm 94:10
Does he who disciplines nations not punish? Does he who teaches man lack knowledge?

Guess its the ability to trust!

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

Just a piece of thought =) no offence okie? just tried my best to answer. =)
Fei said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mr_BuRns said…
fei: pls remove ur multiple posts of exact same content...

and i dun think quoting the bible to non-believers will help to explain the situation...
paomaomao said…
i wish all you christians will cut everyone some slack.
what will you do if youre happily eating your beef steak and some indians come over and insisted you worship that piece of steak ?
insisted that youre a sinner and youd burn in hell ?
to each his own,
stop forcing your ideas upon other people.

xiaxue,
do cheer up yeah.
things must be rough for you lately,
but you do know youve got your friends whom you can rely on.
hugs.
Marcelly said…
First of all, Xia Xue, I am truly sorry to hear about your friend, he was indeed too young to leave.

Not surprisingly, many contrasting opinions will be lashed out on this entry.

My view is simply to keep a balance. We live in such a diverse world, difference of prespectives is inevitable. To live in harmony, we should respect each others' and not stick their noses into others' lives.

Some faiths encourage their disciples to be more evangelistic than others. I could never see the bright side of this. I can only empathise and close one eye.

Some would condemn those who are not of their same faith. Where's all the respect then?
They can simply laugh at us thinking,

"Har Har,, you're fucking going to hell coz you dont believe in what I believe in..".

Well, thanks. But how would you guys even know who's gonna end up where? You seen it b4? been there b4?

Choice of religion itself is not exactly free-will. Often, we happen to adopt the faith of those around us, thus upbringing, geographical locations matter a lot.

I would like to ask then, those people of very undeveloped, war-stricken, chaotic countries out there, they don't have time to worry about faith and believing in noble prophets/Gods/Lords/Saints, for they have to worry about EVEN being alive in the first place. How can they be punished for being born at the wrong place at the wrong time? Whose will was it in the first place? What about young kids passing away? What about down syndrome? Are they condemned too?
Again, where's the respect unto others?

So, are people from China, India and Middle East going to hell?
That includes XiaXue, me and a lot of people posting comments on this same entry.

What a propaganda.

I think we all have our own heavens. We won't even know who's wrong or right until the day we die and find out, but by then it'd be too late, we wouldnt be able to blog about it either. So you all will never know. Your choices now are based on blind faith.

As a science embracing person, I do not believe one thing until I see it for myself. If it makes a whole lot of sense, I may give it the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, it'll stay in the grey area, waiting to be proven.

XiaXue, I agree with you.
I hope you are over the mourning period soon and cheer up!

Evangelists are not exactly empathetic people. They think they are because they strongly believe that they're 'saving' you.

But in actuality, they are indirectly disrespecting our faiths and condemning us as a person for going to hell for reasons assumed by themselves. It's utterly ridiculous.

To re-stress my main points,please keep a balance, respect one another, keep noses to themselves, empathise and live in diversity harmoniously.
Fei said…
oops i m soorry about the multiple post! didnt realised it.. didnt know how to remove it either >_<
crazycat said…
my condolences... hope you will cheer up soon..
Lily Pop said…
i'm not against christians, but im equally pissed by their behaviours. disgusting behaviours when the try to "force" their religions & beliefs on others.
Jeremy said…
Xiaxue,

First of all,I express my condolence to your loss.

2ndly, I hope ppl who're christian or non-christian can just stop bringint this any further. It's not going anywhere.

Statistics :
Ppl who started with "I'm a christian and I wanna say ...yadda yadda.."
---a lot a lot

ppl who started with "I'm a non- christian but I wanna say yadda yadda ..."
--- more or less the same no.

So what does it mean u're a christian or non- christian? How many of you have thoroughly read entire bible? how many of you have spoken to god urself? how many of u know the history of christianity and how many of u know how many times bible itself has been modified throughout these centuries? Make sure urself are informed b4 u make any comments, as I can see many self-claimed christians obviously have no idea what's happening at all.
"I'm Christian I'm Christian!! Listen to mee!! I know I know!!"

Just to point out to some ppl, discussing the matters of deaths n God, how do u know?
-"God wants us to this wants us to that, not to this not to that.."

How on earth do u know? u speak for god?

While the others,
Non- Christians : " Some christians are evil, they criticize other religions and preach all the time yadda yadda"

Christians : " We respect other religions n I do regret that some christians are not being mature while they preach yadda yadda.."

So, what's the topic of discussion here? Christianity? Or the existence of God ? Well my iq is only merely 50 a semi-retard but to the best of my knowledge i guess que2,3,4 can nvr be answered by any mortals beside god himself.Well, that's if, He exists.

So you all are welcomed to pick a stance or just sit on the fence n rot but what're u thinking while u try to answer those que's?

Last point, Xiaxue while u're making this all an issue. I'm not sure if JingWei's family or even himself would prefer u not to mention all this in ur blog. They might wish that u could just let him rest in peace, as in, PEACE. I really do feel terrible to hear that he was taken away in such a way but there's nothing u can do to change that fact. And what u're doing will definitely help on that. And, be more matured.

This is personally for you, Xiaxue.
Your actions and words expose what u have on mind and ur past. It's suggested that you pick up some basics psychology and start understanding why u complain all the time/taking it on on just anyone.

And also regarding ur beliefs that results reflect intelligence. This is only partially true. Results are only a good determinant as of whether a person will be more likely to stick to his job and it merely says that this person is not a retard. Results is more about discipline, persistency. You can look for the statistics of research on years of education, academic results under economics.

This will explain ur anger towards everyone, everything. Esply against intellects, it all started because u're lack of confidence, lack of a better cert to brag on.
This explains why u need to brag on ur mensa cert to gain urself that tiny bit of extra confidence, also why u nvr really hold on to a job, as ur results justified ur characteristic, that u're unlikely to hold on to a permanent job.

Sorry to analyze u without ur consent, but I gain no pleasure at all. Just to let u know, while u're struggling to convince others that u're not dumb in order to have them to convince u + being proud to attract a huge amount of ppl of ur level to read ur blog, u could have spent time doing things way more constructive. Understanding urself is the first step.

I apologize for my english as it's not even my 3rd language. Hope u know what u're doing with ur life.
d. said…

shiyao said...

I find the irony between this entry and the one on March 26th 2005 (about the shoe-retrieving man who got hit by a train) rather difficult to avoid.


agreed.
Sarah Lee said…
Hello my dear bloggerqueen RV junior,

sorry to hear abt what happened to Jingwei, had a friend who passed away in a similar manner back when she was of the same age as him. I can totally relate to your entry, because my friend, A, attended church too, and though the family was not Christian, they arranged for a Christian funeral. And guess what, I'm beginning to wonder if it's the norm for those pastors to be doing preaching during the memorial service, instead of using some brains to understand that all friends and family mourning for the deceased. The point about emphasizing that the deceased has been taken to a better place and therefore we should not be upset just angers me too..I dunno man, she was barely 19 when she left for the States to study. A bright girl with a wonderful future, and if their God was so nice and thoughtful as what the pastors said, it was definitely the wrong time to take her away. Knowing that my dear friend went to the States in Business class and had to come back to Singapore as cargo in some wooden box just saddens me. The pastors could do with some brains to be more sensitive, definitely. And like you said, KNNBCCB to them (didn't get to do it a few yrs back). *grimace*
SGGH said…
sorry for your friend.

But i believe his faith in God really took him to the place of new life. And if thats true that he is in the Heaven, i believe he wants all of you all to know the truth also.

1)Sometimes its hard to accept death or the way to die is too horrific, but its not what we want also . Its the devil that is ruling over this earth that is causing all the trouble. God may wants to bring peace and order, devil always want desolation and ruin.(you may think it as if its a fairy tale of good and evil) But believe it or not, it still stand a chance to be true.

2)Jesus sympathise with you as he been through life himself. He is given birth, fed , walked on the earth, and been through wat the devil thrown at him yet be holy, set apart and righteous. So he is saying , yes you will get upset, be of good cheer as this is all temporary. You will have better life ahead, after death comes new life and life more abundantly. Your friend with his faith is in heaven with Him. Won it be betta if u are goin to see him one day also? thats why the pastor must evangelise even though someone is lying there dead. Becos ur friend may wan you to be with him at the end of your dayz.

3) Why do pastor still eat medicine? God is creator of the world, He created medicine too. While miracles will happen, He will work with what he created too. If there is a chance of surviving the devils attacks why not use it? Maybe you will be cured and can do a fulfilling destiny.

4) This life is to test your true love for Him, if you don't even going to believe, follow Him through this short period called life, when you enter into eternity, will you follow Him ALLLLLL the way? He wans to know your heart as he still gives us a choice, Life or death, blessing or cursing and many more. All tis is your choice.Its already been given but waiting for your choice.

5) i agree with Jeremy. Your thought life determines your character. If you always going to think negative things about people and things, i think no matter what you have certs results money or the whole world. You will never feel happy about anything. do you know some most rich people in the world are the most poor people? they are poor in their spirit their emotion , their tots. You may see them glamarous on tv events, you may not know how empty they feel inside. While some of the poorest of the people are richly in their spirit. Becos they feel contented. I may not know how you personally but from what i see, you are clever, wonderful and pretty but do you lacks of love? (its not jus sexual needs) peaceful mind? confidence about yourself and other people? Simply ask yourself these questions. U know it urself.

I am very sorry about ur friend, however, as a christian i am happy. becos i know he is in heaven with the God that i served.
devilinme said…
Jeremy,

"I apologize for my english as it's not even my 3rd language. Hope u know what u're doing with ur life"

3rd language? So u are trying to impress us all with your grasp of languages? Bleeeh.

XX doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. U are the one trying to prove to people u are good in languages or that u are an intellect, is it not?
hhmmm...
so what's the conclusion?
I got stuffed said…
To "Son"

I'm sorry if i've offended you, i merely speaked my mind. You have answered neither of my questions. If authors were inspired to write the bible, doesn't it make the bible...unreal?
And i don't understand what you talked about him not being egoistic..you ranted on and on, but you didn't make a point. We can all make our own choices, and if we choose not to believe in Christianity, than it's our prerogative. if God, as you say, was such a gentleman as to give Adam and Eve the right to live their life, than why isn't he enough of a gentleman to grant us the right to live our life. If we choose to be, say, a muslim, it's our right, and why should we be condemned for it?

I am not defending Xia Xue, neither am i contradicting her. I am just speaking the fact.
I got stuffed said…
Isn't Heaven just a figment of humans' imaginations? Just a place we all wished existed and could take refuge in, if according to Son, it were created by authors inspired by God?
Jeremy said…
devilinme,

let me start this by apologizing first. I wrote with the intention to help, as it would be dumb of me to be equiped with the ability to read some ppl's thoughts but not understanding my own emotion n thoughts.

1st of all, i'm not trying to impress. that is because i've seen how XiaXue look down on ppl solely because of their english skill.(mail from an eligible man) And yet she's unhappy of ppl who make her feel inferior.(Ian) I merely wanted to show her know what Henry pointed out in his 5th notes, which in no way i can inteprete it as good as him. Because English is simply not a language of my command.

And again I shall repeat this, make sure u're informed with the situations or at least try to understand where one's coming from.
Do not always presume or prejudge ppl especially in a bad way.

My guess is that u've nvr lived in a foreign country before, ppl would look at u like u're an eyesore as if u're speaking their language in a disrespectful manner purposely because u do not possess good command of the language. This is one of the reason why racism exist. In sg it's common, but if u're surrounded by britons u'ld be treated as an ignorant.

And if you haven't realized, ppl with real brains n wisdom do not brag, or make fun of ppl. Because they know what they're capable of, not needing to earn the confidence by doing those mentioned. And on top of that, they know how to respect other ppl's stance n opinions even if it's opposite of what they believe. They do not usually hate, because they see the weakness in ppl where those ppl're not able to hinder, they simply feel sorry for them for not being able to notice it and keep themselves from being better person.

Henry is a christian and I'm not. He appreciates what I tried to express with my poor english.And I feel thankful.As I've known, most singaporean are angry,envious ppl. I was hoping that with Xiaxue's circle of influence, she could set up a good example for other ppl, starting from singaporeans.

Devilinme, a response like urs is totally reasonable.And i shall clarify again, I speak several languages(not on daily basis) and read in just a couple more languages, while english is not the 3 languages that I usually use, it's not my 4th ,5th language. So all i could say is that english is not even my 3rd language and i hope i'm not causing anyone too much trouble reading my english. Just a note for u, if u happen to travel or study or live in other countries, say, Russia with unhappy ppl, a weird accent with some own invented slang of urs might result in a bash in ur face.

May you find true wisdom, devilinme. =)
Jeremy said…
As most ppl are average, short sighted, it's almost impossible for the average to spot their own weaknesses n problems but rather to pick on other ppl.

I'm just a bit sad how ppl actually live their lives.
1st, comment on bitches that have 2 faces, nice to guys n totally ignore all girls.

2nd, repeatedly scolded a dead man stupid for picking up a shoe that was fallen into train track.

3rd, when her friend died she's very sensitive about everything in the funeral. A minor mistakes will be seen as intolerable and insensitive.

On first impression, ppl will think match sticks have to be invented far earlier than lighter, unfortunately this is totally flaw.
Being uninformed, one would presume walking accross train tracks stand a higher chance of being killed than the chance of a motorcyclist being killed on road, as we've nvr seen on newspapers "Lucky girl crossed train track unharmed". But I've seen many ppl who did that with my eyes, thus there must be even more of which I didn't see with my own eyes. Having said all that, I do think crossing train tracks is totally unwise. But if we look at the death rates of motorcyclists, it would seem that it's not safe at all to travel on a motorbike.

But why is it only a tragedy when a motorcyclist is killed but a stupid suicide when there's a guy who got hit by a train? Ya, he's not wise, or u may claim he's stupid. To a certain extent, we all are stupid in doing something, none of us are wise in all decisions for a reason or another. That shoe might mean something to him, I'll leave it to ur imaginary.

And what is the standard to be considered as stupid? Know there's risk but went for it and got killed? As I have said, to a certain extent, being a motorcyclist is also unwise. Just because he's a friend so his death is a more honourable one and the other whom u do not know is plain stupid. Well this is about the right time to read that post XX wrote about girls who have 2 faces.

Speaking of being insensitive, if it were your close fren who has got killed in the train accident. Would you think he's stupid , even if u knew that he could have avoided it ? So you wouldn't feel sad at all bcoz his death is somewhat evitable? Or even worse u find that some1 said that ur fren who got hit is plain stupid on her blogspot, and it's being read by thousands of ppl everyday.
With just a tiny bit of sympathy, I guess you wouldn't want to comment about his death. The dead man is poor enough.

And I'm amazed that XX actually felt offended because the pastor looked back several times to get her fren's name right. It's just ironic.

How ur brain functions and thinks depends on what u feed it. GO on and be self-centred.Keep pointing fingers. Keep picking on ppl. Keep taking it out on other ppl. And for you ppl, keep reading what she thinks and nevertheless, keep supporting.
robin said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
UltraVinz said…
Being XX is what makes her XX. Which is why some like her while others hate. I think as long as her conscience is clear, she can by all means do anything she pleases at her home (blog).

I dunno where or how some of u guys were brought up, but I was taught to respect the mistress of the house when ever I pay her a visit. Especially so, after being served homemade tea & cookies (blog articles).
Jasmine said…
If you are sincere abt knowin the ans, go find it out urself. no matter how pple quote from bible or not, u wont b satisfied with the results.
and i personally feel its pure rude to make comments abt christians. in tis case, u arent showing enough sensitivity to your fren, JW. since its his wish to become a christian or to know more abt it. its fine to b angry, esp at a loss of a close fren. but not at the expense of targetting certain group of pple, its not fantastic.
to delete or not, its up to u. coz my comment is meant to be read by u, and to let u know.
SGGH said…
Of cos with outmost respect to the owner of the blog. But i am saying in general if you see in my note 5) . However, XX being XX is one thing. Changing mindset is another thing. A child think differently from an adult. So should our body grow and the mind still thinking as a child? or shld our mind grow as our bodies grow? Not offending anyone. But just urges everyone to see further better so that oneself is regarded good in many's sight. Btw the christians sux posts shows you all are just a babe who do not know how to behave in social standings. Grow up guys. stop being in old mindset, it will kill you(not physically but emotionally)
jem wee said…
dear xiaxue and everyone reading this post and its comments, first of all, i would like to offer my condolences to everyone who is still grieving. i think that more than enough has been said about religion BUT i would like to add that God did not intend for us to suffer. Because of the free will He gave to us, much or all of the pain n sufferings we endure are a result of our own actions. cancer, aids, accidents etc. sometimes, we even suffer when someone else does something wrong. questions involving "why"s have no definite answer. read the problem of pain by C.S Lewis if you want to know more. but i assume you dont want to know more. you just want to indulge yourself in your "immaculate and impeccable writing skills and huge following of sheep". i agree with jeremy. i do hope that with your immense popularity and influence, you could do something to help other pple. yes this is your blog and you can say whatever you want n slam the shit out of pple like me. but i do hope you'll do the right thing.
SGGH said…
I got stuffed: you never know if its true until u are there. thats why it takes faith to believe in God. But i don't tink you want to get to hell, then u regret for not beliefing. No offense.Simply no offense. But again, to XX i trust that ur friend JW is in heaven! Life is short, live it good, live it right. Don't regret! its too late! 'Now and after' its the words all you guys shld look to.. not 'Past' cos ur eyes is not at the back of your head. its in front! So its over! Just trust your friend JW is in heaven!
Agagooga said…
Let me play Devil's Advocate (ooh, how ironic):


If a Christian is involved in an accident, the reaction will be as follows:

If they come out uninjured - "Praise be to God! I am uninjured! It's a miracle!"

If they are slightly injured - "Praise be to God! I am barely scratched! He's watching over me!"

If they are injured - "Praise be to God! I am injured, yet since I have faith in him, I have come out stronger. Hallelujah!"

If they are badly injured - "Praise be to God! This is a warning to me, to tell me not to be so careless next time. Thank you God for protecting me from death this time. I will take better care of myself next time."

If they are crippled for life - "Praise be to God! Though I am crippled in body, I am whole in spirit. I will strive to extol him and glorify his name further. I will serve as a testament to his mercy and grace."

If they die - [Said by others] "Praise be to God! He has taken xxx to his side, and saved him the torments of his life. His time was up, so he was taken according to God's plan. Amen."


If you don't know what's wrong with the above, let's just say that if nothing can be considered bad, the concepts of goodness and badness, good and evil all lose their meaning and significance, and we are left adrift in the sea of nihilism.

Basically, there is no falsifier to faith. Heads the christian wins, tails logic loses.
Eche said…
Please accept my condolences.

I read somewhere before, "I believe it is wiser not to ask what this religion or that religion might be, or the name of this god or that god, but simply to think of heaven, to cultivate a right attitude towards heaven, without focussing on specific names. The essential beliefs of the major religions don't differ very much. the variations we notice are often the result of our own narrowness of vision."
GBHF said…
The work of this blogger speaks of the species that is of the brought up of secular world. We do behave like this, in one way or the other. I like the blogger for her interesting writing. I may not like her attitude but this is not for me to change her. What right have I to condemn or change her? If I ever have such ill thoughts about her, then let HIM help me to rid the evil thoughts.
Darren said…
thank u for ur blog, if not i would never know that my best friend from pri 5 has passed away... i thank God for the times i brought jingwei to church during those days.. and i know that he's saved
i know that many people hate christians for how we are such hypocrites... i know that because i'm one... we are hypocrites because like everyone else in this world we can't do the good we want to...due to sin..
but praise the Lord because, He took us out of comdemnation... so we shall not die with sin
Xian said…
Agagooga:

Exalting God albeit suffering does not make good & evil lose meaning or significance. When one exalt God in spite of his suffering, he is telling God: this situation may seem really bad, but You have the Last Say. It may not make sense to you (I am not sure if you are a christian). To a christian, God is the almighty, all-powerful one. Doesn't it make sense to trust in this almighty God, than in mere mortals? When a christian go through sufferings (or accidents in your case), it is not that he don't feel the pain. It is not that doubts don't creep into our minds/hearts. Do you know what exactly went through a believer's mind when accident happens? Have you ponder the struggles they have? The lamentations? Before the believer finally glorify God, in spite of the doubts they still feel?

Then again, most objections to the existence of God from the problem of suffering come from outside observers who are quite comfortable, wheras those who actually suffer are, as often as not, made into stronger believers by their suffering.
Anonymous said…
Xiaxue, Why are you getting so worked up about it? Something controversial to blog about? Do you think Jing Wei wants a rant over his death?

The pastor is a pastor, he believes in christianity, he has the right to do so, you too have the right to atheism as long as there are no conflicts. Respect is mutual, so respect his religion.

all your 5 points do not mean anything because religion is not a matter of fact or logic, its a matter of belief.

Though I do agree it is wrong for the pastor to spread his religion over JW's dead body.
original master said…
I HEART DOUGLAS ADAMS. ESPECIALLY THE PART WHERE THE VOGONS READ THEIR POEM TO ARTHUR AND FORD PREFECT. THE NAME OF THE POEM WAS BLOODY FUNNY.

(I'll stop)

I have the first and last book of the series and I'm still trying to scrap some cash out to buy the whole series. (I'm a fiveteen year old!) The movie's coming out bytheway.

I'm sorry for your friend and even as a (not very religious-y) christian, I'm angry at the pastor.

"he would "like to take this opportunity" to urge those present to accept Christ, or well, not be able to go to heaven like Jingwei did." That was just plain offensive. Plus he should do his duty to memorise the name, it just brings a bad name to all christians.
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